Tips for getting a clean sound on vocal recordings?

[Hippie162]

Excellent news - look forward to hearing some more audio once you get it edited and mixed!

Martin

Thanks! If anyone would like to offer advice the I have uploaded a rough mix here https://soundcloud.com/user-410433233-5 ... nRFJXM5tlC

I did post a thread asking for advice but think it has been buried in all the many threads out there so no interest. I am struggling to get the sound I want from this track, I want a "big" "lush" sound but currently it sounds busy and muddy.. even a bit thin in places.

Again I have a lot of vocal tracks in there, I want a choir-esque sound from the backing vocals (think Florence and the machine) if anyone has any advice?

References for the track were John Lennon's "Imagine", Adele's "remedy" and Florence Welches "Grace". To give an idea of what I'm looking for.

Any advice on getting those claps sounding better would be so great too as they sound naff!

[The Elf]

I can hear that you are a long way from your references. You need to go back to your references and listen very carefully to the balance, tone and ambience, then begin making mix decisions to go from what you have to what you want to hear. Being realistic it's near-impossible to teach someone to mix by text over a forum. As long as you know your tools well it really is just about application. From what I can hear most of the basics are there - though I find that drum pattern questionable, I will admit.

First of all, there's also quite a bit of nip and tuck tuning work needed on the vocals - get that right first, and some of those harmonies will start to go from wobbly to lush.

[Hippie162]

I can hear that you are a long way from your references. You need to go back to your references and listen very carefully to the balance, tone and ambience, then begin making mix decisions to go from what you have to what you want to hear. Being realistic it's near-impossible to teach someone to mix by text over a forum. As long as you know your tools well it really is just about application. From what I can hear most of the basics are there - though I find that drum pattern questionable, I will admit.

First of all, there's also quite a bit of nip and tuck tuning work needed on the vocals - get that right first, and some of those harmonies will start to go from wobbly to lush.

Yes agreed.. long way off.

I think the drums.. yes, they need to be simpler especially on that second verse, perhaps I need to start from scratch with them, but I will have a good think.

Can I ask you about nip and tuck tuning? All my previous experience in music was instrumental only hence how much I am struggling with vocals. Can you suggest a tool to use to get them right in Cubase? I can maybe look at you tube tutorials if I know where to start, but I see a "pitch correct" and and Octaver in Cubase and don't really like either.

[The Elf]

The tool you need is Vari-Audio, but don’t just go at it expecting to throw it on and all will be well. You need to spend time adjusting the segments and tuning curve to make it invisible. I think the mag did a couple of tutorials, so try a search.

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[Mike Stranks]

Hippie162:

Both The Elf (Paul) and Zukan (Eddie) offer 1:1 teaching and guidance about mixing and all things recording. Both are superb trainers, extremely knowledgeable and very nice guys too! You would not be patronised in the slightest.

I have no idea of their rates, but as others here can testify, it's money very well spent. You can contact both of them via the Private Messages facility.

Just a thought...

[Drew Stephenson]

Indeed, can confirm!

[Hippie162]

The tool you need is Vari-Audio, but don’t just go at it expecting to throw it on and all will be well. You need to spend time adjusting the segments and tuning curve to make it invisible. I think the mag did a couple of tutorials, so try a search.

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Thank you Elf..

My Cubase is only Artist 9.5 and I don't have Variaudio

Could you suggest a good pitch correction plug in that I can purchase for cubase?

[Drew Stephenson]

The basic Reaper plugins are available as a free download pack to use in other DAWs: https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/ and that includes ReaTune. It's not as sophisticated as VariAudio but it works and it's free.

[Hippie162]

The basic Reaper plugins are available as a free download pack to use in other DAWs: https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/ and that includes ReaTune. It's not as sophisticated as VariAudio but it works and it's free.

Ooh in that case I already have it and had no idea Thank you!

[The Elf]

Seriously, rather than buying a plug-in your money would be better spent on Cubase Pro - VariAudio really is that good. It is seamlessly integrated with Cubase and lets you fine tune each and every note to an exacting degree, which is what you need to keep it sounding natural.

[Hippie162]

Seriously, rather than buying a plug-in your money would be better spent on Cubase Pro - VariAudio really is that good. It is seamlessly integrated with Cubase and lets you fine tune each and every note to an exacting degree, which is what you need to keep it sounding natural.

I am thinking that Pro might be the best way to go as I am finding so many limitations along the way with Artist as I am quite ambitious with what I want to achieve. I have seen you can auto generate harmony voices in pro also, thoughts on that or naff?

My credit card is now looking very tempting!

I just wanted to say Elf you were so right about the drum pattern.. I decided to just remove altogether for now and it is a completely different song (for the better).. much more intimate and more like my references in style. I may add some light percussion or claps / clicks and that is it. And also wanted to say thank you as you give really good advice

[The Elf]

I have seen you can auto generate harmony voices in pro also, thoughts on that or naff?

It can work well, as long as the auto-harmonies are not too exposed in the mix. Often I've used the auto process to create the harmony lines, then had the vocalist learn and perform them - and then sometimes layered the real harmonies with the auto ones. This all helps to create big, lush BVs.

Layering a real lead vocal with a near-fully corrected one can also make good doubled vocals.

And then there's the auto-alignment, which is also good for tightening up the timing of doubles and harmonies.

As long as these things are used to enhance, as opposed to create/prop up, a performance, then they are all to the good. It's when I have vocalists delivering me sub-standard parts, then telling me I can 'do something with that' that I begin to get twitchy.

I just wanted to say Elf you were so right about the drum pattern.. I decided to just remove altogether for now and it is a completely different song (for the better).. much more intimate and more like my references in style. I may add some light percussion or claps / clicks and that is it. And also wanted to say thank you as you give really good advice

You're welcome. It's just about passing the knowledge on.

[Hippie162]

So I took the plunge and upgraded to Cubase Pro11 Which is taking all day to download it seems..

I will post an updated mix once I have sorted the issues discussed if that is ok with you guys

[The Elf]

Good for you!

Read the pages on VariAudio three times carefully before you begin to try it out. And the secret is in how you implement it, so come back before you use it in anger...

[Hippie162]

I have started cleaning up my vocals now on the track and wondered if you guys could answer me a couple of queries?

Regarding automation; I have so far done the volume automation on the main vocal using the fader, sort of riding it as the vocal plays and trying to keep the volume at the same level on the meter. My question is, should I not be automating the pre gain instead? I remember Elf telling me to try and leave faders at unity.. but then was wondering if other people sort their volume automation and then render the audio down (or not? does it matter?) - I was planning on doing this prior to compression so I guess I would have to use pre gain?

I have started getting the hang of the control parameters in Variaudio and am so happy I have it now, you can't even hear the vocal has been corrected which is what I wanted

[The Elf]

Set the gain such that the peak level is around the -10dBFS mark with the fader at unity. Now leave it there!

Then automate the fader.

It sounds like you’ve headed straight into automation, though. I would be looking at other measures before going there, such as Part levels.

The aim is *not* to have the vocal level steady throughout the song - it is to have vocal level be appropriate to the mix throughout the song. This is a creative process - not a technical one.

Also, I would group the vocal and automate the Group, rather than the track. By doing this you can more easily trim the overall vocal level.

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[Hippie162]

Ah! Thank you Elf!

That has cleared it all up in my head.. I started by sorting part levels using a mixture of direct offline processsing first and the volume tool in Variaudio when required and then went onto automation.

That is why I only did the main vocal and then stopped, easy to undo the lot and start fresh tonight

[The Elf]

I wouldn’t use offline processing to sort out levels. Be consistent with your methods, such that you have the flexibility to change it at any time - it will be a cyclic, re-iterative process until the vocal sits correctly for you.

Many Cubase users never discover Part -automation, and this is great for fixing syllables. After that would come track (or Group - as I’ve explained) automation. Each layer has its place, but be methodical - if one method starts fighting other you can end up tying yourself in knots!

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[The Elf]

I should add that I personally don’t favour VariAudio for level changes, but that’s just me. I just think any process you have that is ‘invisible’ can be a bit of a stumbling block.

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[Hippie162]

Thank you for this Elf.

That's good advice, I started it with the audio files in a fresh project to play about last night so luckily I have all the original dry audio still to start with a clean slate.

Group tracks .. yes I will do this as I have doubled parts in places that will need to be grouped !

Thanks again