Is there really any point making music to sell anymore ?

[Marbury]

Well, I don't know about anyone else here but I am at a loss at what to do regarding music for use in libraries etc. Fortunately I make most of my earnings with sound effects but as companies have fallen, sales have been reduced from a decent licence to the price of a cup of coffee I am pretty depressed with the whole business. Even libraries that have showed interest, one in particular who was keen on my work was about to send me the contract and I didn't hear diddly squat, no response of my emails. The company is still going but people are weird, in some cases downright ignorant. I get a few hundred every quarter for my PRS, but that is now shrinking. Recently I invested in a lot of vst software (mainly Spitfire audio) to broaden palate but I feel I have waisted hundreds on something that I now can't really justify on my next tax return. It seems you have to be a name, know people in the business to succeed now. Fortunately my mortgage is paid in 18 months but it is still sad to see something I was once enthusiastic about die on the vine.

My real passion is making more experimental Arty music, the kind that would never sell for use in the mainstream media, so I am thinking sod it, just do that. Having said that, Bandcamp also seems to favour the more successful artist in their algorithms, rather than giving others a chance. Ditto has happened to photography, once lucrative licenses for up to a few hundred to mere pence, yes pence!

It's just a race to the bottom as more and more young kids sell their tracks cheap for the sake of bragging rights.

[Drew Stephenson]

It's just a race to the bottom as more and more young kids sell their tracks cheap for the sake of bragging rights.

I'm not sure that's the entire reason. Fundamentally the barriers to entry have dropped massively over the last ten years; more people creating content shifts the supply and demand equation.
This is amplified by a lowering of standards in some of the big commercial players who are focused on speed and cost.

None of which helps, but I don't think it's fair just to blame it on 'kids these days'.

[Marbury]

It's just a race to the bottom as more and more young kids sell their tracks cheap for the sake of bragging rights.

I'm not sure that's the entire reason. Fundamentally the barriers to entry have dropped massively over the last ten years; more people creating content shifts the supply and demand equation.
This is amplified by a lowering of standards in some of the big commercial players who are focused on speed and cost.

None of which helps, but I don't think it's fair just to blame it on 'kids these days'.

Fair point, and totally valid. Add it to the list. Not so much blaming kids, but they tend to slot pre made loops, samples, beats, and chords together and think they are composers.

[Drew Stephenson]

It's just a race to the bottom as more and more young kids sell their tracks cheap for the sake of bragging rights.

I'm not sure that's the entire reason. Fundamentally the barriers to entry have dropped massively over the last ten years; more people creating content shifts the supply and demand equation.
This is amplified by a lowering of standards in some of the big commercial players who are focused on speed and cost.

None of which helps, but I don't think it's fair just to blame it on 'kids these days'.

Fair point, and totally valid. Add it to the list. Not so much blaming kids, but they tend to slot pre made loops, samples, beats, and chords together and think they are composers.

True enough.

::: looks nervously at extensive use of drum loops and automated piano in recent recordings :::

[James Perrett]

If you want to find a new audience then get your music used as a soundtrack to a Scratch game. There are thousands of budding game programmers on there who need soundtracks to their games. You won't earn any money from Scratch but you are putting your music in front of an audience who may well be in a position to to pay handsomely in 10 years time.

[The Elf]

Start thinking about 'selling' before a project and you'll never begin.

The same democratising systems that carry all this mediocrity can also work in your favour; that's been proved many times. The trick is to make something that finds an audience and rises above the mediocre. That's always been the requirement of a career in music - nothing has changed.

This was said by W H Auden, and I believe it holds as true for music: “Some books are undeservedly forgotten; none are undeservedly remembered.”

[BJG145]

This was said by W H Auden, and I believe it holds as true for music: “Some books are undeservedly forgotten; none are undeservedly remembered.”

I only wish that was true. But some things I can't get out of my head.

She's so lovely
She's so lovely
She's so lovely
She's so lovely
She's so lovely
She's so lovely
She's so lovely
She's so lovely

(I suffer from a rare form of audio PTSD.)

[shufflebeat]

...I can't get out of my head.

Na na na
Na na na-na na
Na na na
Na na na-na na...

Have a good evening.

[The Elf]

Proving my point, though!

[MOF]

Or 25 ‘sending out an SOS’ at the end of Message in a bottle.

[gyates329]

If you are in this for the money, you are not going to be here long.

[Arpangel]

Yes, and no!
I make music because it’s something I love doing, I also make money from it, not much, just a bit, but it's the icing on the cake, not the primary reason for doing it.
One of the problems of being hugely successful financially with your music, is that the tail starts wagging the dog, you start to identify what sells, and make your music accordingly, you play to the gallery, so much utter shite has been made under that particular pressure.
I have a friend who "almost" fell into that trap, but his integrity got the better of him, he started to earn silly amounts of money, pop star figures, he eventually left the band, because he didn’t agree with the rest of them writing just for the cash, I would have left too, it’s really bad, especially if you start off with no shackles, just writing what you think is good music.
Of course, if you’re really good, geniusville, you’ll make loads of money anyway, whether you like it or not!

[Marbury]

Of course, if you’re really good, geniusville, you’ll make loads of money anyway, whether you like it or not!

That isn't necessarily true for everyone.

[RichardT]

Of course, if you’re really good, geniusville, you’ll make loads of money anyway, whether you like it or not!

That isn't necessarily true for everyone.

I agree! It depends very much on the genre of music, and a certain amount of luck, even for the most gifted.

[OneWorld]

If you are in this for the money, you are not going to be here long.

To quote Miles Davis when asked "How do you make $1million out of Jazz?"

he replied "Your start with $5million"

[OneWorld]

It's just a race to the bottom as more and more young kids sell their tracks cheap for the sake of bragging rights.

I'm not sure that's the entire reason. Fundamentally the barriers to entry have dropped massively over the last ten years; more people creating content shifts the supply and demand equation.
This is amplified by a lowering of standards in some of the big commercial players who are focused on speed and cost.

None of which helps, but I don't think it's fair just to blame it on 'kids these days'.

Fair point, and totally valid. Add it to the list. Not so much blaming kids, but they tend to slot pre made loops, samples, beats, and chords together and think they are composers.

I guess this is the result of the democratization of music, the equivalent of painting by numbers or self-driving cars, ready made meals etc, the packaging looks different but they all taste the same.

I was listening to the stems from Bohemian Rhapsody, and as well as Freddy's singing, which of course is legendary, the piano part is incredibly complex. That is not to say anything that is complex is superior, not at all.

I ask myself "If Queen (or any other band of their ilk) walked into a record company these days, asking for a deal, would they be shown the door?" Actually I don't think they would, but the likelihood of such a band coming into existence is less likely, simply because the level of skill needed to get to the top is lower. I often listen to YouTube and trawl through the latest offerings and especially if one listens to the many compilations - it is hard to distinguish one tune from the other because they are formulaic. Many of the the tunes have an impressive production quality, striking videos, a perfectly arranged slick construction, but 2 minutes after hearing the tune, it doesn't linger, there is no lasting impression.

I watched the broadcast of Glastonbury when the Who played (oh what days of joy, the pre-covid epoch!) anyway, there were very impressive performers throughout the day/night, and when Who took the stage, looking as if they were a bunch of escapees from a care home, I thought to myself, "Oh dear, you're going to embarrass yourselves chaps, having to finish off the night, after a legion of today's top performers giving excellent performances"

How wrong I was, they ripped up the rules of impeccable slick presentations, they blasted the rest into oblivion, with a lively, beat for beat stormer of a show, yeah, there were imperfections, some vocals lost in the mire looking for the right note, but it didn't matter, like a captain steering a ship through stormy waters, they got through it and they looked as if they could have gone on all night. But like true professionals, they left the audience wanting. And from those shots of the audience, those left wanting were of today's generation, many of them born long after The Who packed up their gear and retired.

So I think considering such a lot of contemporaneous music is mundane, that possibly enhances the chances of live music becoming ever more the showcase for raw talent - once the plague is over of course. For example, take Ed Sheeran, a troubadour, one man and his guitar and stomp box, stripped back performance, no gimmicks, no lavish choreography and visual effects, and yet I think on his last tour he grossed £750Million!!!!!

And there are those that are gifted with self-belief, hardworking and talented and are the exception rather than the rule, Muse etc So I think unless you are an easy on the eye chickadee or young lad with the backing of SiCo et al, you have to establish yourself as a live performer, that's where the money is, but goodness me, you have to graft for it, and there's nothing wrong with that, thus it ever was

[James Perrett]

One big difference today is that you can learn all about pop music at college and university whereas 50 years ago you'd be listening to records trying to work out how they did that. So we've ended up with thousands of very competent graduate pop musicians all playing the way they've been taught instead of hundreds getting things slightly wrong and inventing a new sound in the process.

[zenguitar]

One big difference today is that you can learn all about pop music at college and university whereas 50 years ago you'd be listening to records trying to work out how they did that. So we've ended up with thousands of very competent graduate pop musicians all playing the way they've been taught instead of hundreds getting things slightly wrong and inventing a new sound in the process.

Don't underestimate how important this is.

Andy

[Drew Stephenson]

I think the other thing to be wary of in the comparison of the 'cookie cutter music of today vs the classics of the past' is that there was a whole load of totally-forgettable cookie cutter music in the past as well. Most of the 80s for example.
But we only remember the good stuff so we're not comparing like for like.

[Marbury]

And then you get the oldies who pioneered their own sound .In my case, Oldfield, Jarre, Tangerine Dream, Floyd and yet I would give you tuppence for anything they have done in the last 30 years.

Having said that the Floyd were excellent when they did the reunion set at Live 8. Ditto The Who.

As for Ed Sheeran............the Emperor's new clothes imo.