More Windows bloatware

For anything relating to music-making on Windows computers, with lots of FAQs. Moderated by Martin Walker.

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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by MOF »

And Windows is exactly the same here.


I got the impression that updates were being installed automatically, other forum threads about using a Windows laptop for location recording mentioned this being a problem, specifically for audio interruptions.
Obviously I’m an Apple fan but truly I’ve never had audio faults caused by other background system issues: “ The computer's been acting up this morning, audio cutting out, and I realise what's caused this when I find that Microsoft has added an icon to the taskbar to inform me that the sun is out, along with a load of celebrity gossip”.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by ef37a »

James Perrett wrote:
MOF wrote:
And Apple don't? :think::lol:


Apple allow you to set automatic updates or not. You receive notifications on boot up automatically but you’re not forced to update.


And Windows is exactly the same here.


Eh?

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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by James Perrett »

MOF wrote:
And Windows is exactly the same here.


I got the impression that updates were being installed automatically, other forum threads about using a Windows laptop for location recording mentioned this being a problem, specifically for audio interruptions.


Windows only installs updates automatically if you allow it to. Unfortunately the default is to allow it and most people don't change the default setting so we end up with all these posts of woe. Anyone using a Windows computer for serious work MUST make sure that they have it set up appropriately.

Apple tend to cater for creative people better with their default settings but there's no reason why Windows can't work equally well with just a few tweaks.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by Mike Stranks »

Thanks Hugh and James for a more reasoned perspective...

Windows is an operating system with a truly huge footprint. Most (non corporate) users will not be bothered in the slightest by this latest addition - many will welcome it. I was ambivalent, but have now switched it off.

Those here who are 'huffin' an' puffin'' should perhaps look at their smartphones. Mine is knee-deep in stuff I don't want, but am unable to remove. Microsoft is going with the flow with these extras - except that it gives you the option to remove it. And my smartphone (iOS) keeps telling me that it has an update available - at about the same frequency as Windows.

As for updates... what's the big deal? My machine tells me that it's got some updates and then leaves it to me as to when they're installed.

As for the number of updates... the partial Internet stoppage last week reminded me of the old programmers' adage "There's no such thing as a bug-free program, but there are programs where not all the bugs have been identified." Windows is a vast and complex OS. The most rigorous testing will still let some bugs wriggle through. It's the user who finds them. So they're fixed and an update is issued. Even in the most professional of software development companies 'twas ever thus...

Windows has given the person in the street personal access to stuff that was unimaginable 50 years ago - not least the audio community. If you don't like what a general, broad-based OS gives you, buy a specialised version of it or switch to Linux.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by merlyn »

Mike Stranks wrote:... or switch to Linux.


Linux gets updates. If a machine is on the internet it needs updates.

If a user wants zero updates then that machine can't be on the internet, which is a nice idea for a music production machine -- the 'appliance' approach -- but it isn't practical for most people.

A sane approach to updates would be to allow 'security' or 'critical' updates only.

The complaints are about Microsoft messing with user settings which I don't see any way to defend.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

merlyn wrote:A sane approach to updates would be to allow 'security' or 'critical' updates only.


Absolutely! Wish they would provide that option.

That would keep the machine as 'safe' as possible, and allow the user to decide on which feature updates and enhancements they wanted to implement, and when.

The complaints are about Microsoft messing with user settings which I don't see any way to defend.


Me neither.

My DAW computer randomly decided it couldn't find the two RME AIO cards inside the other day after an 'update'. I had to reinstall the same RME software to make it play nicely again.

Grrrrr...
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by Dynamic Mike »

James Perrett wrote:Windows only installs updates automatically if you allow it to. Unfortunately the default is to allow it and most people don't change the default setting so we end up with all these posts of woe.


On windows 10 Pro you can only defer updates for 35 days. But nobody is complaining about security updates, it's 'feature updates' that you should be able to opt out of. My main complaint is that following updates you are helpfully advised 'some of your settings may have been changed' but never told which settings. So you need to trawl through privacy settings etc. to see what's been enabled.

Most people probably have no idea what they're sharing with MS. Unless you've turned off 'getting to know you' in speech, inking & typing then every word you've ever typed has been collected by MS, same with Cortana (I never trusted her in Halo!). You've essentially agreed to a key-logger that's turned on by default.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by ef37a »

Just read today (on teletext news of all places!) that Msft are dropping support for W10 in 2025 and a new "revolutionary" OS will be announced shortly.

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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by awjoe »

Revolutionary? I'd prefer evolutionary. Revolutions are messy.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by James Perrett »

Dynamic Mike wrote:On windows 10 Pro you can only defer updates for 35 days.


Mine is deferring indefinitely - I've skipped whole releases before going straight from 1909 to 20H2. I only updated because Microsoft were stopping security updates for 1909. I don't allow it to install any updates automatically but I tend to allow it to install security updates when it asks to.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by Dynamic Mike »

Maybe it's just me but I can only seem to update everything (apart from feature updates) or nothing, and I don't like deferring security updates. Feature updates automatically become part of the next monthly update anyway so there's no escaping them.

You'd expect Windows Pro to be more work flow focused instead of pandering to the clickbait and social media generation.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by James Perrett »

I know I had to dig fairly deeply to set things up as I wanted. As far as I can see, the setting I used is in the Local Group Policy Editor under Local Computer Policy->Computer Configuration->Administrative Templates->Windows Components->Windows Update->Configure Automatic Updates which is enabled and set to 2.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by S.Crow »

Dynamic Mike wrote:You'd expect Windows Pro to be more work flow focused instead of pandering to the clickbait and social media generation.


The last version of Windows Pro that wasn’t just a superset of the Home version was Windows 2000.
Since then the Home and Pro versions share the same code base with Home having relatively few features disabled.
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by Dennis J Wilkins »

I have no such issues in my studio -- two PC Audio Labs Rok Boxes running Windows 7 Pro. One is never connected to the Internet and the other connected only briefly if needed to install/authorize new software. They run fast and glitch-free, never suggest an update, use no virus software and have never have. And so far I have found only one program that wouldn't install in Win 7 (Melodyne 5 since the installer refuses to run when it detects Win 7). I have installed dozens of programs claiming to require Win 8 or Win 10, and all work fine.

Win 8 was a disaster and Win 10 has caused many friends and associates a lot of anguish even if it does work OK most of the time. I've run digital audio in my studio since Windows 3.1 (audio for video production at first using Software Audio Workshop) and Win 7 has been by far the most stable, day in and day out. So as "they" say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I realize and understand companies cannot continue to support their programs in Win 7 (I spent decades in software development myself) but also know that almost any program written in a Win 8 or 10 environment will run in Win 7. Since I have a fully functional virtual studio that can handle over a hundred 24-bit audio tracks if needed, and have dozens of synth and sampler emulations and hundreds of audio processors, I'll run these systems as long as I can. I certainly won't ever "upgrade" them to Win 10 or beyond, and will replace them only when I can no longer keep them running!
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Re: More Windows bloatware

Post by merlyn »

For anyone fed up with Windows 10 it's possible to try Linux set up for multi-media here :

http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/

I would create a bootable USB stick with AVLinux on it and try AVLinux without installing it first to see what you think. Someone who uses Reaper with mostly Reaper plug-ins would find the transition mostly painless I would think. Reaper has also recently added LV2 (the Linux plug-in format) support so there are a lot of Linux plug-ins now available for Reaper.

AVLinux comes with a ton of plug-ins pre-installed. There's also WINE and lin-vst for running Windows plug-ins, which works a lot of the time.

It is different from Windows and it's highly recommended to read the manual before you try it :

http://bandshed.net/pdf/AVL-MXE-User-Manual.pdf

It's possible to get an idea of what AVLinux is like just from the manual.
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