the latest Behringer-gate

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by johnny h »

BillB wrote:Agreed, Johnny, but cost, or more specifically cheapness, is only one element of a sales strategy. The Monotron only costs £30-40. Korg's recent new and old (mini-MS20) analogues are in a similar ball park to Roland's boutiques. I'm just suggesting that cost is probably not a barrier to Roland/Yamaha, nor is technical know-how. It seems to be more a case of attitude and the way that small decisions, to do / not do a market experiment, can influence their approach to the market.
All wild speculation, of course :headbang:


The cost difference between a 3.5mm socket and a 6.35mm one is minuscule. That Roland would cheap out on such a vital component indicates that the company is firmly in the grip of the pettiest of beancounters.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

The cost difference might be trivial, but the additional panel and PCB space in such a compact product might not be. And then there's also the user-base expectation and requirements -- sadly as so much gear now uses 3.5mm sockets it could be perceived that the user-base actually expect it want it!

I'm not defending it, and I'd much rather have full-size products with full size connectors, but miniaturisation is deemed to be a desirable 'thing' in many quarters...

H
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by johnny h »

Hugh Robjohns wrote:The cost difference might be trivial, but the additional panel and PCB space in such a compact product might not be. And then there's also the user-base expectation and requirements -- sadly as so much gear now uses 3.5mm sockets it could be perceived that the user-base actually expect it want it!

I'm not defending it, and I'd much rather have fill-size products with full size connectors, but miniaturisation is deemed to be a desirable 'thing' in many quarters...


The 3.5mm socket is just about forgivable. The hum that comes out of it while using USB power is not!
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

johnny h wrote:The 3.5mm socket is just about forgivable. The hum that comes out of it while using USB power is not!


Changing the size of the connector won't change the susceptibility towards ground-loops. That's either a fundamental design issue, or an incompetent user installation!

H
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by johnny h »

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
johnny h wrote:The 3.5mm socket is just about forgivable. The hum that comes out of it while using USB power is not!


Changing the size of the connector won't change the susceptibility towards ground-loops. That's either a fundamental design issue, or an incompetent user installation!


Its a well known fundamental design issue. My point wasn't that the smaller socket caused the hum, it was that the Roland Boutique series suffers from multiple sloppy design choices that indicate extreme cost cutting was the overriding design priority.

I'm not a qualified engineer but surely it isn't that difficult to design an output that doesn't hum while connected to power, even in a small, cheap device. Especially by a long established company like Roland. The slightly bigger Pioneer AS-1 manages to offer true analogue circuitry, separate L/R 1/4" balanced outputs and rock solid build quality.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

johnny h wrote:My point wasn't that the smaller socket caused the hum, it was that the Roland Boutique series suffers from multiple sloppy design choices that indicate extreme cost cutting was the overriding design priority.


Ah... I'm glad you explained what your point really was, as I was distracted by the specifics you had mentioned. ;-) Yes, cheapness does bring significant compromises, doesn't it?

...surely it isn't that difficult to design an output that doesn't hum while connected to power, even in a small, cheap device.


No it's not... But it does rely on connecting to equally well-designed equipment in a sensible way. And sadly, a lot of end users don't understand analogue interconnections well enough to do that. So while I don't defend Roland's budget designs, it's not all their fault and intelligent installation will avoid the hum issues you've mentioned.

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by Eddy Deegan »

I did buy one of the TR-08s, but I sold it after a short while as I found the lack of proper pattern chaining too big a compromise. I was given a TB-03 in exchange for a mixing desk I wasn't using, and I ended up giving it away as it sounded 'OK' but it didn't wow me and in the end I never used it for that reason.

I've steered clear of the rest of the Roland boutique stuff as a result. A friend of mine has had a few of them but never kept any, and I tried them all out and I felt 'meh' about them. I can't put my finger on it and it's very subjective but to me they don't have any personalty or charm.

The TR-08S looks on paper to be a very interesting device but I'm surprisingly (or maybe not, in light of the above) un-tempted. Also, looking at their guts they are extremely dense chips - most of them seem to be the same board running different software, and I have some (relatively minor, but ...) concerns about their longevity.

That said, I've not really been a fan of Roland synthesizers and drum machines since the days of the D50 and earlier. No denying the mighty Jupiters and there was something about the D-series boards that I did like a lot, but I just don't like 'the Roland sound' since then for some reason. Again, that's purely subjective.

If the RD-909 is anything like as good as the Model D clone then I'll be in line. Even if the sounds are a bit cliche now, they can be processed and also, I'm hoping, layered with external drum sounds driven over MIDI.

I'm currently more interested in a Squarp Pyramid than anything else, strangely enough ... but I'm going to have to be patient and wait a month or two to justify the pennies if I decide to go for it ;-)
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by DGL. »

Another update from 'the other world'.
The Behringer odyssey is now in pre production and should start full mass production soon.
Despite having a full size keyboard, metal case, built in multi-FX and built in sequencer it should be $399 that's cheaper than any of the KORG reissues.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by Eddy Deegan »

Very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3IgFHE1g74

The resurgence of analogue at reasonable prices is something I'm a huge fan of. Apart from the fact that analogue gear sounds lovely (as a rule) I believe it to be a good thing that there are 'cool' instruments rapidly re-appearing that are not 'one press gives a whole arrangement' affairs as to use these analogue beasties effectively requires putting some actual thought into what you are creating as opposed to simply layering preset complex multi-track patterns.

Not that mashups aren't a fun thing to do, but I genuinely hope that the new generation of analogue instruments encourages more people to create music from scratch as opposed to relying on the preset performances and combinations omnipresent in the advanced contemporary rompler-pluses :-)

I'm encouraged by the increase in eurorack-style noises in various films and TV programme soundtracks over the last few years and hopefully this sort of thing will continue.

Another benefit as I see it is to put a little pressure on the established manufacturers of analogue gear to either drop the premium slightly or innnovate more. Not that I'm complaining really, but these comparisons between (for example) the Prophet 6 /OB 6 and the Deepmind 12 serve to illustrate my point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K6M9vkh4wUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPSxSvYXxpE

(I'd still by the Prophet 6 or OB 6 but look at what you can get for less than half the price if you're stretched for budget)

As Behringer are obviously able to produce these clones at such low prices I really hope they start producing more original synths of their own design, like Arturia did (albeit Arturia did so at rather higher premiums).
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by The Elf »

Got to say that so far all the Berry synths I've used are spot on for the money.

Love my Odyssey, but I have to try the newbie - the built-in effects would be a huge advantage for stage.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by Eddy Deegan »

The Elf wrote:Got to say that so far all the Berry synths I've used are spot on for the money.

Love my Odyssey, but I have to try the newbie - the built-in effects would be a huge advantage for stage.


Also I'm intrigued by the presence of multiple filter types in the Berry. I've never owned an original Odyssey but if I understood the video correctly, the Berry one has all of the filter versions present in the various original models.

2019 looks like it'll be a good year for us on the synth front!
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Post by DGL. »

Eddy Deegan wrote:
The Elf wrote:Got to say that so far all the Berry synths I've used are spot on for the money.

Love my Odyssey, but I have to try the newbie - the built-in effects would be a huge advantage for stage.


Also I'm intrigued by the presence of multiple filter types in the Berry. I've never owned an original Odyssey but if I understood the video correctly, the Berry one has all of the filter versions present in the various original models.

2019 looks like it'll be a good year for us on the synth front!


Yes it has all filter types, also according to the Amazona.de review it sounds more authentic than the KORG clone.
Isn't it nice having a synth nut running a big MI company?
All we need now is the 2600, which I understand is in the works.
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