The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

For fans of synths, pianos or keyboard instruments of any sort.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Terrible.dee »

BobTheDog wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:…While I'm no fan of some of Uli's business practices, if his team can come up with a modern, affordable clone that sounds and performs as well as the original then I would be willing to bite my lip and acquire one. But it really would have to be right in every performance aspect...

As a great philosopher once said: “If Once You Start Down The Dark Path, Forever Will It Dominate Your Destiny.”

BOOM!!

This!

People want to separate their G.A.S from their morality. and it just doesn't work that way.

....and to further paraphrase that philosopher:

"I have come in search of a great synth cloner."

"Hmph! Clones not make one great!"
Terrible.dee
Regular
Posts: 80 Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:12 pm

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by BobTheDog »

The Elf wrote:Why, in heaven's name, in 2021, would we want an 8-bit/12-bit mono sample player? :headbang:

What an utterly pointless waste of plastic, metal and manpower. :cry:

I can only hope that in reality it does a lot more, but even then...

I'm more interested in the upcoming new Linndrum from the man himself.
User avatar
BobTheDog
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1583 Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:00 am
Signature block of the week.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by johnny h »

Terrible.dee wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:…While I'm no fan of some of Uli's business practices, if his team can come up with a modern, affordable clone that sounds and performs as well as the original then I would be willing to bite my lip and acquire one. But it really would have to be right in every performance aspect...

As a great philosopher once said: “If Once You Start Down The Dark Path, Forever Will It Dominate Your Destiny.”

BOOM!!

This!

People want to separate their G.A.S from their morality. and it just doesn't work that way.

Quite, you have to question your morality if you are prepared to support Behringer after they attempted to sue forum members and other manufacturers for claiming they copy things (!), not to mention the whole Peter Kirn / Corksniffer anti-semitic bullying campaign.

History has shown how easily ordinary, 'good' people can slip into defending the indefensible.
johnny h
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3786 Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:00 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by resistorman »

Fortunately, I don't care at all about old synths or their clones so I don't have to meet Mr. U at the crossroads :roll:

There's been a couple of things they make that I've found worthwhile: X mixers, Deepmind, etc. which are original designs. But the weird and lucrative fetish for old technology is a thriving market so sadly that's where Behringer puts its energy. What a waste of engineering and the brains they've bought, but hey, that's what people want.

BTW, It's hard to take the claims of pure evil in a tiny corner of the manufacturing world seriously when there is so much real harm integral to the common items we thoughtlessly use and consume every day.
User avatar
resistorman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1422 Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:00 am Location: Asheville NC

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

The Elf wrote:Why, in heaven's name, in 2021, would we want an 8-bit/12-bit mono sample player? :headbang:

What an utterly pointless waste of plastic, metal and manpower. :cry:

I can only hope that in reality it does a lot more, but even then...

Oh dear, but my Microgranny, after a rocky start, has proved indispensable, right now anyway, recorded a couple of good tracks with it yesterday that will go in my compost folder.
All of this stuff, seems appropriate now, in my life, 8 bit, too much reverb, noise, degradation, it’s like life as we get older, as I’m experiencing it, distant, desolate, veiled, indistinct, receding, and these tools I’m buying reflect that.
I see my future albums becoming almost totally incoherent, more effects than ever, bass disappears, looking at the history of experimental music, dance music, Techno, it’s a trend that’s slowly happening, it’s not just me, a lot of great tracks are only great because they have exaggerated the use of the technology so much, or left it out entirely, the focus, the bass, the structure, is becoming more and more indistinct.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8673 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

johnny h wrote:Quite, you have to question your morality if you are prepared to support Behringer after they attempted to...

I think everyone has to question their morality over virtually every decision they make... But it is their decision to make.

As for the anti-Behringer bandwagon, jump on it if it makes you feel superior on a faux high ground, but it would be hugely naive to think other large companies and corporations dont indulge in similar behind the scenes bullying, reverse engineering competitors' products, dubious business practices, sharp accounting, and all the rest. They do. I know of -- and have even been on the receiving end of -- many such instances. The difference is they are mostly less blatant and dont tend to get caught out and called out quite so easily or often.

The fact is that behringer does have some very good designers and engineers working for the global company, and they are producing some very good products with no real viable competition. At the same time, the global company is also producing some less impressive and rather unimaginative stuff and it would be good, IMHO, if they failed to sell any of it...

Personally, I'm not interested in any of the company's low-rent stuff, or any of its clones of products currently being manufactured by legitimate IP holders. And Behringer's pointless public spats, litigation and shoddy 'marketing' are all self-defeating and hugely self-damaging in exactly the way they deserve to be -- as your post demonstrates perfectly.

But if Behringer is prepared to invest in redesigning, from scratch, the unique circuity required to make something that sounds and performs exactly like a CS80 -- a machine that is unaffordable and largely unserviceable now, and which Yamaha has shown no interest at all in revisiting -- then I would be prepared to evaluate it on an open-minded basis.

If I strictly took the moral high ground, knowing what I know, there are very, very, few companies' products that would get room in my studio... And while that might make me feel morally superior, it wouldn't be very helpful, productive, or realistic.

The world is in shades of grey, not black and white.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 31834 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Something else being released/announced soon, looks like some sort of analogue drum machine going by the video/sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0QvMwrsOHk
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1415 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

It would be nice if it's a CR-78, though those sounds don't suggest it? Maybe this is their sample playback machine.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 17059 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

The Elf wrote:It would be nice if it's a CR-78, though those sounds don't suggest it? Maybe this is their sample playback machine.

Sounds all seem to be analogue in the video, maybe it's a korg minipops or similar clone, TBH it sounds to be 808 like but it's only a youtube video.

If they could recreate Kraftwerk's electronic drums then that would be great.
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1415 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Martin Walker »

Arpangel wrote:Oh dear, but my Microgranny, after a rocky start, has proved indispensable, right now anyway, recorded a couple of good tracks with it yesterday that will go in my compost folder.
All of this stuff, seems appropriate now, in my life, 8 bit, too much reverb, noise, degradation, it’s like life as we get older, as I’m experiencing it, distant, desolate, veiled, indistinct, receding, and these tools I’m buying reflect that.

Well that's a turn up for the books!

Pleased to hear that your Microgranny has finally settled into her new home ;)

Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 18077 Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

Martin Walker wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Oh dear, but my Microgranny, after a rocky start, has proved indispensable, right now anyway, recorded a couple of good tracks with it yesterday that will go in my compost folder.
All of this stuff, seems appropriate now, in my life, 8 bit, too much reverb, noise, degradation, it’s like life as we get older, as I’m experiencing it, distant, desolate, veiled, indistinct, receding, and these tools I’m buying reflect that.

Well that's a turn up for the books!

Pleased to hear that your Microgranny has finally settled into her new home ;)

Martin

Yes Martin, I’m treating it like volatile flash memory, I sample something, use it, and it’s gone. If I look at it like that, it won’t damage my head in any way, and I’m getting some lovely textures, just by twiddling the knobs, can’t really think of anything that does this, in this way, so yes, it’s safe for the time being.

:)
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8673 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by johnny h »

Hugh Robjohns wrote:.. it would be hugely naive to think other large companies and corporations dont indulge in similar behind the scenes bullying, reverse engineering competitors' products, dubious business practices, sharp accounting, and all the rest. They do. I know of -- and have even been on the receiving end of -- many such instances. The difference is they are mostly less blatant and dont tend to get caught out and called out quite so easily or often.

Its true that some of biggest names in the industry have highly dubious practices and many are long removed from their founders and merely interested in cashing in on their history. Even so, there is something nakedly aggressive about Behringer's approach and its must be dishearting and offputting for smaller manufacturers when considering entering or continuing in the market. Why bother with the time and investment when, if you're successful, someone will 'pay homage', undercut you and squeeze you out of the market?
But if Behringer is prepared to invest in redesigning, from scratch, the unique circuity required to make something that sounds and performs exactly like a CS80 -- a machine that is unaffordable and largely unserviceable now, and which Yamaha has shown no interest at all in revisiting -- then I would be prepared to evaluate it on an open-minded basis.

If I strictly took the moral high ground, knowing what I know, there are very, very, few companies' products that would get room in my studio... And while that might make me feel morally superior, it wouldn't be very helpful, productive, or realistic.

The world is in shades of grey, not black and white.

There is the Deckard's Dream, although personally I'm not a huge fan of it. Not only is the interface really fiddly in a rack, recreating the original's arbritary limitations for the sake of 'authenticity' is typical of the backwards-looking nostalgia-fest that infects the synth / music tech industry.

It's so depressing that what counts as exciting these days is the recreation of 70s and 80s synths and drum machines. Not that Behringer is fully to blame for this - I had a bit of respect for the DeepMind as it attempted to a little further than merely a Juno clone - I guess the market told them to stick to what people know.
johnny h
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3786 Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:00 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

johnny h wrote:Its true that some of biggest names in the industry have highly dubious practices...

Indeed... but of course 'dubious practices' aren't generally illegal. So while some might turn their noses up, these companies aren't actually doing anything wrong in the strict legal sense.

Why bother with the time and investment when, if you're successful, someone will 'pay homage', undercut you and squeeze you out of the market?

Why? Because if you're successful you'll recoup your costs and be able to expand the business in other directions or with other products. And you might even be able to sell to a larger company. We read of successful companies being bought out every day. We also read daily of companies launching new products with added features and facilities to compete directly with whatever advantage their competitors introduced in their previous models -- often borrowing the same technology. This is all quite normal in business. Perhaps most don't do so blatantly, but it's really the same thing.

There is the Deckard's Dream...

There is, but the lack of integrated A-T keyboard and the extra module to complete the feature set doesn't appeal to me.

However, the point I was trying to make was that despite the widespread anti-Behringer lobby here and elsewhere, my personal view is that a distinctive, perhaps even unique, product like the proposed DS80 deserves to be reviewed on its own merits and with an open mind, regardless of past company deeds. That's certainly how I approached the Behringer X32 digital console, for example, which I found to be a genuinely excellent product.

Let's recognise the good products (and actions) the company makes as well as the less palatable, and be realistic in comparisons to other manufacturers.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 31834 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Something interesting was posed earlier on "the other forums" by someone who has been helping out Behringer originally with fixing the RD-8. Noting that AFAIK he is not been paid anything by Behringer for his help.

Jamie munro on GS wrote:Had a long chat with Uli today

We're gonna need a bigger list :lol::lol:

Some of the creations are going to blow minds when they arrive

Haters gonna hate, it matters not in reality

:think:
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1415 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by johnny h »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: We also read daily of companies launching new products with added features and facilities to compete directly with whatever advantage their competitors introduced in their previous models -- often borrowing the same technology. This is all quite normal in business. Perhaps most don't do so blatantly, but it's really the same thing.

It is highly unusual (in any industry) for a company to threaten to sue individual forum members for pointing out similarities in product ranges.

It is also highly unusual (in any industry) for a company to personally and publically attack a prominent industry journalist with very questionable imagery that many people find extremely offensive.

But sure, yes, they are cheap. Excuses have to be found!
johnny h
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3786 Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:00 am
Post Reply