Any synth that really sounds different

For fans of synths, pianos, organs or keyboard instruments of any sort.

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by The Elf »

Arpangel wrote:The MicroMonsta only goes a long way in confirming what the OP is saying here, very underwhelming, very conventional, with loads of effects, and the usual Techno sounds

It costs 240 quid, velcros to the side of a keyboard stand and will be powered by its USB port. MPE-compatible too (my main interest in this device). If that's 'underwhelming' I'll take it!

And nope, there aren't loads of effects - just delay and reverb. Though I can't see why effects are a problem. Better that than having to drag more boxes to a gig.

If it sounds boring then that says more about the person playing it than the device. The last time I looked the electric guitar was still pretty much the same machine, but some people seem to get exciting things out of it.

I don't do techno. What you're hearing are presets. You have to look past presets - which is where I came in...

I'm taking a chance on this one. I doubt I'll lose money if I decide it's not for me.
User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 21017 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Arpangel »

I think we all need to take a step back, and approach this from a different angle.
We need to step back, and see these "instruments"for what they really are, see the big picture, not the view from inside a very narrow "worldly" technical perspective, it’s like a little prison.
Taking on board a new instrument, is like making a life long friend, potentially, we can’t do it lightly, instruments are powerful magic, and in the wrong hands can bring bad Karma, frustration, and ultimately waste our time, and our lives.
That’s how important an instrument is, they aren’t toys, or a slight diversion.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19877 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Eddy Deegan »

Arpangel wrote:I think we all need to take a step back, and approach this from a different angle.
We need to step back, and see these "instruments"for what they really are ...

We don't really need to do anything. You might, but everyone has their own relationship with their instruments and most will not align with yours ;)
User avatar
Eddy Deegan
Moderator
Posts: 9592 Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am Location: Brighton & Hove, UK
Some of my works | The SOS Forum Album projects | My Jamuary 2025 works

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Arpangel »

Eddy Deegan wrote:
Arpangel wrote:I think we all need to take a step back, and approach this from a different angle.
We need to step back, and see these "instruments"for what they really are ...

We don't really need to do anything. You might, but everyone has their own relationship with their instruments and most will not align with yours ;)

My memory, it’s getting bad, I’ll do it now.....

"In My Opinion"

:D
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19877 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Arpangel wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:
Arpangel wrote:I think we all need to take a step back, and approach this from a different angle.
We need to step back, and see these "instruments"for what they really are ...

We don't really need to do anything. You might, but everyone has their own relationship with their instruments and most will not align with yours ;)

My memory, it’s getting bad, I’ll do it now.....

"In My Opinion"

:D

Maybe just add a disclaimer in your sig? ;)
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 28059 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Folderol »

If nothing else, this thread underlines just how different people's approach is.
Could have something to do with the fact people are different :tongue:
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19879 Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:00 am Location: The Mudway Towns, UK
Seemingly no longer an 'elderly'.
Now a 'Senior'. Is that promotion?

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by The Elf »

Folderol wrote:Could have something to do with the fact people are different :tongue:

I'm not... ;):mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 21017 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by N i g e l »

Manny Fernandez - From DX to MODX | Podcast
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/man ... dx-podcast

This is a great interview with a guy that gets the most out of his synths.

The link to his soundcloud page is worth exploring, some good sounds there.
User avatar
N i g e l
Frequent Poster
Posts: 4550 Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:40 pm Location: British Isles

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Folderol »

The Elf wrote:
Folderol wrote:Could have something to do with the fact people are different :tongue:

I'm not... ;):mrgreen:
Image

But if you're not, but even a few others are, that means you are as well. Alternatively...

How is it you and I have different synths? :lol::beamup:
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19879 Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:00 am Location: The Mudway Towns, UK
Seemingly no longer an 'elderly'.
Now a 'Senior'. Is that promotion?

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by BillB »

Will, you need to watch Life of Brian :thumbup:
BillB
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2201 Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:00 am Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by The Elf »

User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 21017 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Arpangel »

Folderol wrote:
The Elf wrote:
Folderol wrote:Could have something to do with the fact people are different :tongue:

I'm not... ;):mrgreen:
Image

But if you're not, but even a few others are, that means you are as well. Alternatively...

How is it you and I have different synths? :lol::beamup:

We are all unique, just like everyone else.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19877 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by tea for two »

phil123456 wrote:Hi,

far from willing to be offensive, all synths reviews I watch gives me the feeling of a new package/branding, but the same sounds every time

I rarely heard a new /old synth really differentiate itself from the rest of the herd in term of sound it produces

anyone feels the same ?
are there some synth that really worth it ?

thanks for your advises

Phil

There is one synth perhaps the most different sounding unique, even though other synths may sound similar.

It is also the most analogue of synths.

There is plenty that can be done with this synth even though it has primarily a rather restricted range of sounds.

Just requires some processing some mangling some chopping up some sequencing.

Mostly it requires inventiveness.

It is also rather affordable.

Yep you and others guessed it : our voice.
tea for two
Frequent Poster
Posts: 4015 Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2002 12:00 am

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by RonanMcDermott »

What sounds do you want to make that cannot be made by one or other of the gazillion hardware or software synths already in existence?
Answer that question, and this discussion can evolve.
RonanMcDermott
New here
Posts: 8 Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:55 pm Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
___________________________________________________________________
Old analogue studio head. Bass player. Harrison Mixbus convert.

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Arpangel »

RonanMcDermott wrote:What sounds do you want to make that cannot be made by one or other of the gazillion hardware or software synths already in existence?
Answer that question, and this discussion can evolve.

I think like a lot of us, sometimes, we don’t have a sound in our heads, we go looking, and want to be surprised, the equipment is very much like exploring a giant abandoned house, with lots of rooms, full of lovely surprises, or nasty horrors, depending on our tastes.
We look to the equipment to provide the answer.
Not all of the time, sometimes we know what we want, but if you’re looking to discover a grand old eighteenth century ballroom covered in gold leaf, it’s no use exploring a two bedroom bungalow.
However, that grand old ballroom covered in gold leaf will sound different according to who’s imagining it.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19877 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Guest »

I can think of a few synths that sound pretty different:

The VSynth can sound unlike any other synth, alongside the other Roland VariPhrase stuff.

Kyma - if we can count that - can make very unique sounds.

EaganMatrix based Haken gear also sounds pretty unique.
User avatar
Guest

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Arpangel »

[ACCOUNT DELETED] wrote:I can think of a few synths that sound pretty different:

The VSynth can sound unlike any other synth, alongside the other Roland VariPhrase stuff.

Kyma - if we can count that - can make very unique sounds.

EaganMatrix based Haken gear also sounds pretty unique.

If we’re including VSTi's, there’s a lot of very unusual and interesting ones, Guagear, Animoog (possibly the best VSTi IMO) in recent years, Carbon 2, TC11, all really unique, amazing sounding things.
I’ve got Animoog wired into GarageBand on my i Pad, in fact, sometimes, I look at my hardware studio and think why am I bothering?
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19877 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by whitesun »

90% of synth sound is made by reverb after it. Raw synths' sounds are ugly. Try other reverbs, some very old ones and very imperfect ones.
Another thing is that hw synths all have separate vibrato of pitch of oscillators for each note which has not been usually implemented in software ones, perhaps for marketing reasons.
Try old synoptic probe from 2000. It's builtin reverb makes wonders. Find on youtube. It sounds very different. Maybe there had been crisis in minds of programmers during 2005-2018. In 2018 they at once started implementing that vibrato thing and for good.
Thirdly, hw synths' waveforms are never perfect, they have rounded corners and that rounding variates ie chaning timbres all the time - this refers to point 2 partly.
whitesun
Poster
Posts: 71 Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:25 am

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Folderol »

whitesun wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:05 pm 90% of synth sound is made by reverb after it. Raw synths' sounds are ugly. Try other reverbs, some very old ones and very imperfect ones.
Another thing is that hw synths all have separate vibrato of pitch of oscillators for each note which has not been usually implemented in software ones, perhaps for marketing reasons.
Try old synoptic probe from 2000. It's builtin reverb makes wonders. Find on youtube. It sounds very different. Maybe there had been crisis in minds of programmers during 2005-2018. In 2018 they at once started implementing that vibrato thing and for good.
Thirdly, hw synths' waveforms are never perfect, they have rounded corners and that rounding variates ie chaning timbres all the time - this refers to point 2 partly.

I respectfully disagree :shifty:
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19879 Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:00 am Location: The Mudway Towns, UK
Seemingly no longer an 'elderly'.
Now a 'Senior'. Is that promotion?

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by BJG145 »

(Just to note that the thread is three years old.)
User avatar
BJG145
Longtime Poster
Posts: 7730 Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:00 am Location: UK

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by whitesun »

I recommend reading https://www.voicecomponentmodeling.com/
It explains in detail what i have briefly outlined above. I don't care if anyone respectfully or disrespectfully disagrees with these facts. It explains why 1000s of software synths have dead sound and how it can be fixed.
whitesun
Poster
Posts: 71 Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:25 am

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Lostgallifreyan »

I developed an analog simulation method using the standard parameters on the Yamaha SY99, that gave waveforms that sound good without level scaling, which matters because you can use key glide for the entire pitch range with no disturbance of timbre because the modulation index does not need to change with tuning.

I extended this into my own software. The sound of the synth often has more to do with subtle variants of saw and square than it does with the filter. The reason for using phase modulation (usually called FM) is that very fine control over the wave shape can be had. It's possible to get the bold hard-edged sound of Prophet waves, or the more raspy and thin sounds like in the AN1X, or make them 'squelchy', whatever you might want them to do.

Having reverb in a synth just limits choice for the sake of convenience. Given how much CPU demands a good synth, or a good reverb, might cause, it makes more sense to me to run them on dedicated machines. A lot of good dedicated hardware reverbs may be found cheap. Whatever the reverb, there's no substitute for making the synth sound good first. A reverb can only augment what's there to start with.
Lostgallifreyan
Regular
Posts: 342 Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:18 pm

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by merlyn »

As far as I know the Roland D50 was the first synth to have reverb. Back when memory was at a premium, the D50 stored the attack portion and the loop portion separately. The transition was audible, and to smooth it over, reverb was added. After that reverb became standard.
merlyn
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1545 Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:15 am
It ain't what you don't know. It's what you know that ain't so.

Re: Any synth that really sounds different

Post by Lostgallifreyan »

merlyn wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 4:29 pm As far as I know the Roland D50 was the first synth to have reverb. Back when memory was at a premium, the D50 stored the attack portion and the loop portion separately. The transition was audible, and to smooth it over, reverb was added. After that reverb became standard.

That matches my memory of it too. I remember programming reverb-like effects in a DX5, because it had none, but there were ways to use spare EG's and oscillators. Not versatile, but definitely interesting. Good for early reflection types, anyway, with some sounds. Being able to make a short sound 'reverbed' or 'dry' based purely on how long the note was held, made some very cool effects that a real one would not be likely to do.

I think the Korg M1 might have been the next big impact from self-contained reverb in a synth, after the D50. That really made a stir, I remember people flocking around it at a trade show. Didn't work for me though, impressive though it sounded. I had already decided I liked phase mod synthesis and dedicated reverb systems. Sample+synth never really sounded right to me, even in the SY99, and I love the SY99. It's all about phase modulation, filter, and reverb, in that case. I rarely found uses for the samples.
Lostgallifreyan
Regular
Posts: 342 Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:18 pm
Post Reply