Help me understand about "frequency response" aspects please?

[James Perrett]

Treat the MFX as a midrange horn with crossover points set so that it handles the frequency range around 1kHz-5kHz and use something else for 5kHz upwards. Even adding a couple of cheap Piezo horns would be better than trying to get the MFX to work at high frequencies in my opinion.

[mikehende]

But, EQ is rarely able to provide a steep enough slope. You could try setting the Drive Rack mid/high crossover frequency at 600Hz and the slop at 12dB/8ve for the mid and HF power amps, but the horn rolls of pretty dramatically above 10kHz so it is going to lack top end up where I can just about still hear it so probably more so for you and especially your son.

Does that mean it can run at 10k continuously and that is the highest level of highs I will be able to get?

[James Perrett]

Does that mean it can run at 10k continuously and that is the highest level of highs I will be able to get?

From the frequency response it would appear that you only get around half the level that you should at 10k (compared to 2k) and the response drops rapidly after that. However, you'll still get something at 15kHz but nothing like as much as you should. This is a separate issue to power handling - MarkPAMan is probably more experienced than most with those 22A drivers so could probably tell you the optimum size amp to use with them.

[mikehende]

It's 20+years since I stopped working for the UK's biggest Peavey dealer, but there's a few things I still remember about their horns

What James said Mark, if you can advise me on how to properly optimize the 22A driver when I get it would be nice? Also, I was told that "Peavy made a near copy of the JBL 2404", would you happened to know what model of Peavey that was please?

[James Perrett]

It's 20+years since I stopped working for the UK's biggest Peavey dealer, but there's a few things I still remember about their horns./quote]

What James said Mark, if you can advise me on how to properly optimize the 22A driver when I get it would be nice? Also, I was told that "Peavy made a near copy of the JBL 2404", would you happened to know what model of Peavey that was please?

I have a vague memory that the people Mark worked for used a CS400 amp for the highs on smaller systems like yours with the plug-in crossover modules but I could easily be wrong. I used to help them out occasionally but we're talking 25-30 years ago here.

[MarkPAman]

Sounds about right to me. Always with the amp's built in compressor switched in to help protect the drivers when on dry hire!

I think the crossover had an eq curve built in to flatten the response by taking out most of boosts between 800Hz & 5kHz*, thus extending the flat (or -3dB) response further. Without this in some form, it was not a great sounding driver. The newer 22T is a bit flatter naturally I believe, though I know newer Peavey cabs use other drivers & do not rely only on the one type any more.

*The two most common crossover points were 800Hz & 1200Hz, but there were others available - I guess each had their own eq correction curve built in.

[mikehende]

Treat the MFX as a midrange horn with crossover points set so that it handles the frequency range around 1kHz-5kHz and use something else for 5kHz upwards. Even adding a couple of cheap Piezo horns would be better than trying to get the MFX to work at high frequencies in my opinion.

That is good advice James [thanks] and might be what I may have to settle for BUT first, I want to try the other options and experiments. That is the setup I have right now but not what I want.

I am hoping PA Man will see my response to his post and can as you've said give me some advice [settings] to optimize the 22A, if not then I will have my bud optimize it to the best as we can hear in the BSS.

[Sam Spoons]

Treat the MFX as a midrange horn with crossover points set so that it handles the frequency range around 1kHz-5kHz and use something else for 5kHz upwards. Even adding a couple of cheap Piezo horns would be better than trying to get the MFX to work at high frequencies in my opinion.

Go and wash your ears out with soap and water James How can you suggest such a thing...

That is good advice James [thanks] and might be what I may have to settle for BUT first, I want to try the other options and experiments. That is the setup I have right now but not what I want.

I am hoping PA Man will see my response to his post and can as you've said give me some advice [settings] to optimize the 22A, if not then I will have my bud optimize it to the best as we can hear in the BSS.

I do agree with JP that you'll never get good sounding 'proper' HF out of the Peavey horns though but at least get a couple of moving coil bullet tweeters or similar, piezo tweeters sound horrible!!!

[mikehende]

What James said is what a lot of DJ's do, they use the horns for hi-mids and tweeters for highs since they cannot get the highs they want from a horn.

[Sam Spoons]

Many modern powered speakers can reproduce up to 20kHz from their horn loaded HF drivers, it's the large (effectively mid range) horns popular in the '70s that can't. With a modern speaker additional tweeters are usually unnecessary.

[mikehende]

Could very well be but I and others maintain that especially powered but also modern speakers does not give the same tone of highs as the older 70s/80s speakers.

[Sam Spoons]

No, thankfully

[mikehende]

Fair enough

[mikehende]

OK guys, meantime while I am trying to get he best settings info for the Peavey horn. I just re-read this info here:

https://peavey.com/c/Horn-Equalization

So help me understand it's info please. It shows:

In order for the two transducers to produce the same acoustic level from a loudspeaker enclosure, the crossover must provide for

-10 dB of Attenuation or reduction (Pad) in the signal level of the high frequencies going to the compression driver.

but that is referring to full range speakers, for standalone horn use how would we know how much "attenuation" to apply please? Like in the Peavey Project One, they had to to have done the same thing as it is similar to what I am seeking to do.

[Sam Spoons]

TL;DR but in a nutshell, the attenuation suggested seems to be for a passive crossover to integrate the horn with a bass/mid driver. If you are using the DriveRack you must be bi/tri amping your speakers and those figures also depend on the power/gain of the amplifiers you are using to drive them. The simple way would be to set all the amps input attenuators to 0dB and balance them, by ear, using the DriveRack. The 'proper' way would be to use a measurement mic and system analyser app but in you garage I think that would be futile and using your ears will yield a better result.

HTH

[mikehende]

Thx. I will relay this info to my bud who will be setting the frequency in the BSS processor when I receive the 22A driver.

[MarkPAman]

I am hoping PA Man will see my response to his post and can as you've said give me some advice [settings] to optimize the 22A, if not then I will have my bud optimize it to the best as we can hear in the BSS.

I don't think I can help with this. Nothing we ever tried was as good as using Peavey's own preset settings though I guess we didn't spend much time trying. I believed then, as I still do now, that any good speaker manufacturer has much more time, money and better tools than I do, to throw at the design optimisation, so the best results are obtained by using what they recommend. The horn and the eq used for it are two parts of the same system.

I hope you'll be able to use the drivers' spec sheet to help get a good eq, but it's quite a complex curve you're trying to tame.

[mikehende]

I hope you'll be able to use the drivers' spec sheet to help get a good eq, but it's quite a complex curve you're trying to tame.

Thanks for responding and yes that is what I am having trouble with making use of and understanding the driver's specs sheet.

First, I cannot find the manual for the 22A online only the 22T so using that as the closest thing, when setting the crossover point for the original driver, it shows 500hz as the recommended crossover:

https://peavey.com/manuals/80300843.pdf

Does that mean all which needs to be done is to set the frequency response to 500 then adjust the EQ to your liking? Or since Figure 1 shows between1 and 2k as being the peak, does this mean that mean this is where the crossover point should be set please?

[Sam Spoons]

You need to set the crossover point(s) for the system not for the individual drivers, the X-over point for a 15" and horn may well be different from a 10" and the same horn. In an ideal world you would have each driver only reproducing audio over the flat part of it's frequency response curve but, where the flat parts don't overlap or a driver has an anomaly somewhere the crossover point compromises have to be made. That is why 10" plus horn cabs usually sound better than 15" plus horn as the flat part of the 15's curve ends before the flat part of the horns starts (and the area in the middle often falls right at the point that affects vocals worst)

[mikehende]

so the best results are obtained by using what they recommend. The horn and the eq used for it are two parts of the same system.

I hope you'll be able to use the drivers' spec sheet to help get a good eq, but it's quite a complex curve you're trying to tame.

To update on this guys, Peavey tech told me yesterday that there is no documentation anymore for the original 22A driver but I can use the specs of the 22T since all of their updated drivers in this line only differ in wattage. I should be receiving the 22A drivers today.

I would like to understand about the CD EQ situation as I have a bud scheduled to bring his Rane AC23 over to run a side by side experiment with the BSS to see which will give me the sound I prefer.

I called up Rane and the Tech could not answer any of my questions which I simply cannot understand why so I would like to ask here please. The documentation for AC23 shows that it does have the CD EQ feature but would require having to solder a capacitor on the board:

https://i.postimg.cc/RhwmGF6v/Screen-Sh ... -40-AM.png

2 THINGS I would like to know please. In my research I had come across this great article here on "How to reduce tweeter volume"

https://soundcertified.com/how-to-reduc ... er-volume/

So I am wondering if instead of tampering with the circuit board [should I get the unit] that I can maybe wire the same capacitor to the horn instead and will it give me the same result?