Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

For performing musicians and engineers: stagecraft, engineering and gear.

Moderator: Moderators

Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by ChrisFelixstowe »

Hi! For the past 15 years, I've been making video as a journalist and programme maker in a very small way, so have a pretty good idea of mic use with a camcorder . . . no prob,really.
But I now need to start producing live local current affairs video, and my first attempt was a disaster, because I plugged a hand mic into a Datavideo video mixer, and got a very low level of sound. A local expert suggested that I put a sound mixer into the chain, and this has resolved my level problem - headphone line out gives me plenty.
My main issue is now getting the right microphones. I have a couple of really ancient lavalier mics that work well with cameras, a rode NTG2, and a hand dynamic mic. My personal preference would be to buy another cheap dynamic with a desk stand, and put these in front of speakers. But would lavaliers work better in an ad-hoc studio with echo issues, and what spec should I look for to work properly with my XLR input mixer with switchable phantom power? There seem to be hundreds of brands/types out on Amazon, etc., so I am confused!
User avatar
ChrisFelixstowe
New here
Posts: 7 Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:10 am
Chris from Felixstowe!

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by Mike Stranks »

Welcome Chris!

Yup! I'd go with lavs every time...

What's your budget?
Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9285 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by ChrisFelixstowe »

My pension, to be honest, Mike - I run hyperlocal news now, and it all comes out of my very limited back pocket!
When I was making TV, it wasn't a prob, but these days there isn't any ad or sponsorship income to work with.
This is the weekly programme project this relates to: https://fb.watch/5Y_IHsxaFC/
This coming week I'll be working with the cheap dynamic running through the Podtrack, and experimenting with the one of the clip-ons I already have, but I'd like to buy a couple more - twenty or thirty quid would be enough to spend on each, bluntly!
Thanks for coming back to me!
User avatar
ChrisFelixstowe
New here
Posts: 7 Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:10 am
Chris from Felixstowe!

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by AlecSp »

From watching your video, the biggest problem you have is the horrible sounding room.

Lav mics will help a lot in getting more voice and less room - even cheapo ones will do an OK job here. https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/mp33751/microphone-lavalier-black/dp/MP33751 come in under £10. But they need the typical 1.5-9v DC bias voltage that a radio pack usually gives. Assuming your mixer/interface supplicies phantom power, then these should work: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292092584672

But the best benefit you'll get is treating the room. This needn't be expensive, a few ladders with duvets/blankets hung on them, or draw the curtains - it'll make a world of difference. Or, ideally, use a better room. Just listen to how much better the audio sounded in the wool shop - there's a reason for that...
AlecSp
Frequent Poster
Posts: 561 Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:00 am Location: Herts, UK

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by MOF »

I’d agree with the others about lavs though be careful where you put them, that chain could end up knocking the lav all the way through the interview.
You’ve got large level differences between the wool shop and Mayor interview and the music abruptly finishes at the end.
Also, on a non sound related issue, what is happening with your subtitles, they look like poor speech recognition software content and massively delayed, they hadn’t caught up even by the last frame?
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1891 Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:00 am Location: United Kingdom

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by Tim Gillett »

ChrisFelixstowe wrote: My personal preference would be to buy another cheap dynamic with a desk stand, and put these in front of speakers

Yes much better. The speech would be clearer, relaxed and more natural. The room echo would diminish greatly. And now no need to plaster on all that horrible Noise Reduction, or is it just a low bitrate recording?

Unfortunately desk stands can allow table thumps to transmit into the mic body. Some mics are better than others at rejecting this noise. Special shock absorbing mic mounts are also available.
Tim Gillett
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2507 Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:00 am Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by Mike Stranks »

I use wireless sets for this sort of work, but I don't think your budget will run to that...

But this: https://www.wexphotovideo.com/boya-dual-mic-lavalier-microphone-for-smartphones-and-dslrs-1746120/?mkwid=s8z6SnF6k_dc&pcrid=310558798078&kword=&match=&plid=&product=1746120&pgrid=57294105050&ptaid=aud-407807923907:pla-1145514465555&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5PGFBhC2ARIsAIFIMNdI0qJKNXTkxP3KvThywEiuFZVULP-fMsjWMtKNMzQsrCaFF-lKeA8aAmBGEALw_wcB

may suit...

I've bought stuff from Wex and they're good at returns if there are any issues.

There are some cheaper two into one wireless units on EBay at present, but you need to buy with discernment as they can have low-level hiss which requires careful use of noise reduction to clean up the sound...
Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9285 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by ChrisFelixstowe »

A major thank-you to you all! Some seriously good advice here, and I'll do my best to carry it out.
At this stage, I've gone for the pair of lavs by Boya (thanks, Mike), and will try these - they may also help with to-camera interviews.
I'll also try Tim's suggestion - have got a suspension unit which will carry a mic - thanks, Tim.
AlecSp - thanks, this is now in hand, the owner is hanging a curtain at one end of the room, which should help, I hope!
MOF, I think I've sorted the level issue, with a Podtrak 4 to act as a sound mixer, suppling a much better line signal to the video mixer, but the subtitles are from Facebook, and are crap! I'll try to kill them off.
Overall, glad I joined if all members here are as helpful and kind as you!
User avatar
ChrisFelixstowe
New here
Posts: 7 Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:10 am
Chris from Felixstowe!

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by Wonks »

Hanging a duvet up in the room will be more effective than a curtain, though doing both will help even more. In the past I've used a couple of boom mic stands with the booms clipped and taped together in the middle. Though I've now got a frame clothes hanger to hang the duvet from, which the wife can also use to dry things on if it's a wet day, so it passes the multi-purpose test.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B ... UTF8&psc=1
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12759 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Reading, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by AlecSp »

Wonks wrote:Hanging a duvet up in the room will be more effective than a curtain, though doing both will help even more. In the past I've used a couple of boom mic stands with the booms clipped and taped together in the middle.

All of this!

It always amazes me how much people will spend on video kit, yet accept hideous sound which makes the end result painful to consume.

You typicaly never notice how bad a room sounds until you listen to playback. Absorbent material and close micing are your friends here.

Keep going and listen critically to your results. Experiment, too. You should find everything improving as you go.
AlecSp
Frequent Poster
Posts: 561 Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:00 am Location: Herts, UK

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by ChrisFelixstowe »

Thanks, Wonks and AlecSP.
As the room is an art gallery, it has ceiling and wall fitments, so I'll be able to hang a duvet up, and should have the lavs by then, so we'll see where we stand on Thursday, when we'll go live with the next show.
I'll post a link to the show on this thread, so you'll be able to see what happens if interested!

Best wishes, Chris
User avatar
ChrisFelixstowe
New here
Posts: 7 Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:10 am
Chris from Felixstowe!

Re: Live multicamera video - sound advice needed!

Post by Mike Stranks »

Not directly applicable to Chris because of budget constraints, but...

I spent yesterday afternoon shooting a promotional video in a charity residential centre- indoors and out.

The video consists of the Director and a member of the charity wandering hither and thither around the site and talking about the various activities and facilities.

I wired one with a Rodelink, the other with a Sennheiser XSW-D at the start of the afternoon and left the packs in place and on for the whole afternoon.

I used a Rode DCS-1 to mount the two receivers on the camcorder hot-shoe and a Rode SC11 to take the signals into the camcorder. The SC11 is good in that it routes one signal to the left of the stereo input and the other to the right. Not really usable 'as is' of course, but it does mean I have separate tracks that I can adjust independently in post and then pan to taste. (In this case, panning will be either a very slight L/R mix or simply converted to mono) Not yet decided... if time becomes a factor in post-processing then it'll be mono! :)
Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9285 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am
Post Reply