Can anyone produce music?

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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by blinddrew »

You're missing my point a bit there Desmond, probably because I didn't explain it very well.
The act of creating the photo calls upon a comparable set of skills to a producer taking a beat or sample and creating music.
It's taking something that already exists but presenting in a way that no-one has seen before.
Anyone can take a 'snap', and give a full frame camera to an amateur and that's what they'll take, 9 times out of 10.
Whilst the professional will be able to take a 'photograph' with any tool they have hand.
I see music production in the same light.
Pun intended. :)
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Sam Spoons »

CS70 wrote:
Arpangel wrote:The writer of the vocal, the producer, or the software and sample companies?


Well, no more than paint manufacturers are the artist, I guess.
But anybody can buy the colors and make a painting, so anyone can create art.. and yes, anyone can produce music.

The main difference between "recognized" artists (or producers) and not is simply the willingness to invest your life into it, I guess. But anyone who creates art is an artist, so also your producer.


I'd agree with Arpy above that a better paint analogy would be painting by numbers, though I'd guess producers fall across the whole spectrum for those who make their own paint to those that paint by numbers. If he took an existing vocal recording, added chords created in software using existing samples then to me he's at the paint by numbers end of the spectrum.
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Stratman57 »

I think that's the problem with samples in general, unless you use them to create a rough sketch of a piece, then actually play that piece with real instruments, then it's a bit like using the new Lego sets, in that they only produce the limited models on the box. When I was a kid, you had to make up your own constructions from the Lego bricks/wheels/lightable bricks. (I still have that Lego set, and I've used it to model a theatre set design).

I missed out on all the midi sequencing stuff, coming from a guitar band background and using a Tascam 244 Portastudio for recording, I do have an Alesis MT8, but I bought that alongside the HR16, which I used in an early incarnation of the band I'm still part of, but I could never afford the synths or other stuff you could control via midi.

I've now got MidiGuitar2 so that I can play virtual instruments for recording, but for live use I have the Boss SY-1 and a EH Mel 9 pedal, which give me great sounds, that I can record by playing the guitar. No sequencing/programming required.

Regards, Simon.
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Sam Spoons wrote:I'd agree with Arpy above that a better paint analogy would be painting by numbers...


I'd disagree. Painting by numbers implies someone else has already worked defined the final image design, shape, colouring etc etc....

However, that's really not the case with someone creating music from samples. In this genre it is working more like a collage artist -- the 'producer' is in direct and full control of what the final image looks like, but it's built using pieces of other people's work and images... Check out Terry Gilliam's artwork in Monty Python as an amusing example.

Same with a producer using samples. They determine the final shape, sound, and structure of the piece.

It's definitely still an art... albeit maybe not one that moves or inspires everyone.

H
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by CS70 »

Hugh Robjohns wrote:However, that's really not the case with someone creating music from samples.


Yeah, that was my thinking as well. I drew the analogy with painting because anyone can splash color or paint canvas uniformly and then cut - like Pollock and Fontana did. Beyond the pure act of will to create, the creative input is minimal, or random. But whether or not splashes and cuts are art or rubbish is in the interpretation, and how the concept has been "sold" - at least to the small group from which we hear what's art or not.

And the opposition I also drew with skills and craftsmanship is because these are far more self-contained and do not usually need interpretation (DJs notwithstanding :D). You can be an exceptionally great guitar player without an audience. But you cannot be an artist without.

Same with music. For all the talk of "liberation" and freedom from labels and gatekeepers, these have been simply replaced with something else (playlists, forums, blogs, or simply huge marketing budgets). We all need - to a larger or lesser degree - to be told what's serious or not, what's art or not. We all are always in search of references. And we always either listen to a creche (if anything, to define us in opposition to it) or try to be part of the creche somehow - sometimes both.
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by The Red Bladder »

I hate to be the spoiler in all this debate about what is or is not art - but one thing is fairly certain - it ain't a commercial product!

Most sample packs are for private use only! They are watermarked and if used commercially, will require the producer (or whatever we are supposed to call him) to apply for a far, far more expensive license.

Before wasting time and effort cobbling together some doofus noises and calling that art, read the terms and conditions of sale - and do so FULLY!
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Sam Spoons »

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:I'd agree with Arpy above that a better paint analogy would be painting by numbers...


I'd disagree. Painting by numbers implies someone else has already worked defined the final image design, shape, colouring etc etc....

However, that's really not the case with someone creating music from samples. In this genre it is working more like a collage artist -- the 'producer' is in direct and full control of what the final image looks like, but it's built using pieces of other people's work and images... Check out Terry Gilliam's artwork in Monty Python as an amusing example.

Same with a producer using samples. They determine the final shape, sound, and structure of the piece.

It's definitely still an art... albeit maybe not one that moves or inspires everyone.

H


I think, as I said, that it covers the whole spectrum from genuinely original painting to paint by numbers. It's what the producer does with that control that places the piece within that spectrum.
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Arpangel »

We're sort of getting into what the definition of art is, and how enjoyable it should be, which is a bit off the point I think. Is a piece of art any less worthy if it’s done entirely using machines and preprogrammed building blocks? After all, human beings made the machines, and made the building blocks, maybe this way of working is just all part of artistic evolution. We can try and hold to the romantic vision of the lonely artist slaving away on his own, with his inspiration and genius which translates into high value if we’re talking about "how art and artists should be" But how relevant is that vision and expectation in today’s world?
Something doesn’t have to be life changing or high art to be enjoyable, a lot of music these days is like a Macdonalds, or a pint of beer, throw away, and popular music has always been made that way, with little thought for future longevity.
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That would be an ecumenical matter.

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by blinddrew »

Then in answer to your initial question, yes. :D
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Arpangel »

blinddrew wrote:Then in answer to your initial question, yes. :D


Well that’s that sorted then!

:D:D
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by GilesAnt »

Anyone can bang a saucepan with a wooden spoon whilst whistling a tune of course - but sound is not the same as music. For me music has the attributes of art in that there is some imagination at work, or some sense of purpose.
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Sam Spoons »

Art is art because somebody says it is :D
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by The Red Bladder »

Arpangel wrote: Is a piece of art any less worthy if it’s done entirely using machines and preprogrammed building blocks?


In answer -

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 71#p641371
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Rich Hanson »

Absolutely. This is going to be quite close to the bone for me, but I've had a few gins, so feck it.

The last few pieces I have posted in the Self Promotion forum have all stemmed from me trying to do something to express the break up of my marriage. The intent has always been to put lyrics to it, but somehow I find it too hard. But the music is the way I try to get the pain and regret out of me, and it helps with the coping. I doubt whether this comes across, but it's been a help for my coping mechanisms.

Whether the music I produce has any long term value, I don't know, but it is an expression of how I feel.

And now I'm off to hide in a corner and pretend I never said any of that :shock:
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Re: Can anyone produce music?

Post by Eddy Deegan »

That makes perfect sense Rich, I had similar productive spells during various challenging times in my life, of which the end of my first marriage was one.

On another occasion I was pining, quite pathetically in retrospect, after a woman with whom I was friends but never more than that. Wrote some quite good music (and lyrics which will never see the light of day) at that time.

Happy New Year mate and I hope you find some comfort in being creative :thumbup:
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