MIDI 2.0!?

For fans of synths, pianos or keyboard instruments of any sort.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by The Elf »

They didn't need to time travel to see the benefit of a bi-directional cable. MIDI was based on RS232, which was itself bi-directional. The pins were sitting there waiting to be used. It could have solved us all this two-cable mess we ended up in - and the difference between 'in' and 'out' seems to baffle many people - myself included on occasions! :lol:

Atari used the spare pins as a MIDI Thru on the Atari ST, which caused a lot of trouble, since by then many cables had the spare pins shorted to avoid confusion over which pins were the correct ones! The number of times I saw that one...

All water under the bridge and out to sea, though. Let's hope the backwards compatibility works as seamlessly as it always does... ;):beamup:
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 17263 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by N i g e l »

Yamaha had their PS/2 port style, 1 cable MIDI. Did that have much impact on equipment or was it just Yamaha ?
User avatar
N i g e l
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1936 Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:40 pm Location: British Isles

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by DGL. »

N i g e l wrote:Yamaha had their PS/2 port style, 1 cable MIDI. Did that have much impact on equipment or was it just Yamaha ?


Wasn't that a serial (either RS-232 (PC) or RS-422 for MAC) 'host' connector, 8 pins, quite a few manufacturers used that connection. My Korg 05R/W has this connector.
The only use of PS/2 connectors I know of for MIDI was the front panel sockets on the Creative Audigy PCI cards.
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1441 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by N i g e l »

All the Reface's have a PS/2 connector for MIDI. They do come supplied with an in/out breakout cable.
Thats the only thing ive got that's single cable.

image is click-able & zoom-able....

Image
User avatar
N i g e l
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1936 Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:40 pm Location: British Isles

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by DGL. »

N i g e l wrote:All the Reface's have a PS/2 connector for MIDI. They do come supplied with an in/out breakout cable.
Thats the only thing ive got that's single cable.

image is click-able & zoom-able....

Image


Forgot about the Reface series (despite having their PSS cousin), though the way they work is different to what creative had in teh fact that creative didn't combine the two in/out connectors in to one PS/2 style using one for each, I guess, using the same pinout as an AT-PS/2 keyboard adaptor.
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1441 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by N i g e l »

The Elf wrote:They didn't need to time travel to see the benefit of a bi-directional cable. MIDI was based on RS232, which was itself bi-directional. The pins were sitting there waiting to be used. It could have solved us all this two-cable mess we ended up in - and the difference between 'in' and 'out' seems to baffle many people - myself included on occasions!


I think having seperate cables allows for a chain configuration, perfectly acceptable in the 80's, although because the electronics are asymmetric (on THRU), there is a limit of 3 or 4 synth modules from a master keyboard before the data gets slewed and erronious
User avatar
N i g e l
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1936 Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:40 pm Location: British Isles

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by desmond »

Yay for MIDI 2.0!

Now we'll be back to the days with endless articles on MIDI, with message formats, and type-in listings for your very own personal computer to experiment with the new-fangled MIDI byte things... :thumbup::clap:
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11442 Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio  | Legacy Logic Project Conversion

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by Agharta »

desmond wrote:Yay for MIDI 2.0!
Now we'll be back to the days with endless articles on MIDI, with message formats, and type-in listings for your very own personal computer to experiment with the new-fangled MIDI byte things... :thumbup::clap:


Maybe we'll see a new Atari in time for MIDI 2.0! :D
I wrote a basic app for my Atari ST that created Philip Glass like riffs.
All very basic and probably written in BASIC! :thumbup:
Agharta
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4350 Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:00 am

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by BigRedX »

The PS2 style port for MIDI seems to be a Yamaha thing. The Tenori-On has it too. Nothing special about the connector, just a compact way of getting enough pins for MIDI in and out in a pre-existing form-factor.

Personally I think MIDI should go back to using XLR connectors as originally intended. All these nasty non-locking computer style connectors are simply not robust enough for gigging use.
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1124 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am
RockinRollin' VampireMan

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by ef37a »

BigRedX wrote:The PS2 style port for MIDI seems to be a Yamaha thing. The Tenori-On has it too. Nothing special about the connector, just a compact way of getting enough pins for MIDI in and out in a pre-existing form-factor.

Personally I think MIDI should go back to using XLR connectors as originally intended. All these nasty non-locking computer style connectors are simply not robust enough for gigging use.


PS2 is knocking on! XLR seems overkill and DIN is being dropped like a hot brick, mainly due to size and cost I would imagine? I do however agree that it is a superb connector.

My vote stays with RJ45. They are cheap enough that you can keep 1/2 doz spares. The latch is vulnerable but you can get special boots that protect it and stop it snagging and surely someone can come up with a snap on 2 piece ABS cover that has a button to push the latch?

I think the very LAST thing we need is yet another bloody connector!

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13261 Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am Location: northampton uk

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

It will need to be cheap, and not easily confused with anything else to avoid damage. So while the RJ45 makes the first requirement, it fails the second.

Perhaps RJ11s (telephone type) connectors would be a safer option? ;-)

I love the idea of XLRs for MIDI on gigging equipment, but that fails on both counts and it's bulky, so perhaps mini-XLRs would be okay, although the expense probably rules them out too.

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 32366 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Post by BigRedX »

ef37a wrote:PS2 is knocking on! XLR seems overkill and DIN is being dropped like a hot brick, mainly due to size and cost I would imagine? I do however agree that it is a superb connector.

My vote stays with RJ45. They are cheap enough that you can keep 1/2 doz spares. The latch is vulnerable but you can get special boots that protect it and stop it snagging and surely someone can come up with a snap on 2 piece ABS cover that has a button to push the latch?

I think the very LAST thing we need is yet another bloody connector!

Dave.


The problem with RJ45 is not so much the connector (although even with the boot the latch is prone to failure and once that happens you find the connector no longer seats securely in the socket), but the type of cables associated with most of them.

Line6 have chosen to use RJ45 connectors and Cat5e cables to join their effects units and foot pedals together, and unfortunately IME they are simply not fit for purpose. Standard cables fail in less than a month of 2-3 gigs and rehearsals a week, and the expensive Van-Damme coilable cat5e cable lasted just over a years before it stopped being coilable, would not long lie flat and shortly after than failed. When I upgraded from a BassPod to a Helix I deliberately went for the floor unit so I was no long dependant on unreliable cables or connectors.

Computer cables and connectors are fine at home or in the office where they are rarely moved or unplugged, but in a gigging situation I have yet to find anything as robust as XLRs couple with high quality flexible screen cable.
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1124 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am
RockinRollin' VampireMan
Post Reply