merlyn wrote:A 13th chord contains all the notes of a scale so 13th chord = scale.
Not sure I agree with this specific paragraph, a 13th chord contains R, 3, 5, b7, 13 they don't routinely contain the 9 and 11.
Otherwise I concur, good post.
merlyn wrote:A 13th chord contains all the notes of a scale so 13th chord = scale.
GilesAnt wrote:I don't really think most musicians think on the fly.....
Not sure I agree with this specific paragraph, a 13th chord contains R, 3, 5, b7, 13 they don't routinely contain the 9 and 11.
GilesAnt wrote:Well the full quote was
I don't really think most musicians think on the fly.....time to solo on F Locrian or whatever.
In other words they are thinking instinctively rather than planning to use a specific mode on top of a particular chord or progression.
Sam Spoons wrote:We even sometimes (heaven forfend) have to rely on a bass player to provide a root
Sam Spoons wrote:Otherwise I concur, good post.
Sam Spoons wrote:Not sure I agree with this specific paragraph, a 13th chord contains R, 3, 5, b7, 13 they don't routinely contain the 9 and 11.
blinddrew wrote:You'll need to teach the bassist to count to three first...
merlyn wrote:Sam Spoons wrote:Otherwise I concur, good post.
Thanks, glad you liked it.Sam Spoons wrote:Not sure I agree with this specific paragraph, a 13th chord contains R, 3, 5, b7, 13 they don't routinely contain the 9 and 11.
I think it's helpful to equate a 13th chord and a scale. You could look on jazz improvisation as turning all chords into 13th chords by using the upper extensions melodically. Chords are stacked thirds, scales are stacked seconds. If you go up in thirds and keep going you get a 13th arpeggio and then you're back to the root.
You'll know that an add9 chord and a 9 chord are different -- an add9 skips over the b7, so the chord you gave as an example is a 7add13. 13 means R, 3, 5, b7, 9, 11, 13 even if not all those notes are played. Of course you don't have to play the mixolydian mode on a 13th chord -- it's just the 'inside' mode for this chord.
merlyn wrote:Yes, leaving out the 11th is a triumph of music over theory.
Giles Ant wrote:I'm not quite sure how this discussion of complex chord voicings relates to modes.
Giles Ant wrote:I know we have been here before, but the mixolydian is not necessarily the 'inside' mode for improvising. As with any dominant 7th based chord all you need is the tonic scale. Clearly it is debatable but I don't see the advantage in complicating things - particularly for beginners.
Sam Spoons wrote:Did I think of G7 with a 13th in the melody or G mixolydian? No I just played it. My ear tells me which are the right notes, which are the wrong notes and which are the right wrong notes and which are the wrong wrong notes (but I may be wrong).
Sam Spoons wrote:
I hear the chords and, in my mind, I hear the notes I want to play. Where it goes pear shaped is that the connection between mind and fingers is not always 100% reliable which, I guess, could be solved by more practice
merlyn wrote:That's fine for diatonic chord progressions. But take The Girl from Ipanema as an example. You might find yourself playing this tune
GilesAnt wrote:Always a joy to play or hear The Girl From Ipanema by the way.