What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by N i g e l »

RichardT wrote: it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by Murray B »

It is fairly easy nowadays to tune the track to C maj. On Cubase for example, this can be done with a simple mouse click. Most pop music nowadays is in C maj. There has to be a reason for this and I agree with the OP as to the vocal advantages of this key. Simply put, the best results can be obtained in C. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourselves!

I have no opinion on whether or not C major is a more resonant key for the human ear, but there are a lot of scales with many of the same notes in and many shared chords too. But this could also explain the claim that Dm is also a key of extreme power and is perhaps the saddest of all keys.

I also have no clue if the majority of pop music is in C but I'd also contend that as DAW input via a midi keyboard has become the standard way of creating music for many artists working from home - it's just easier to stick to the white notes if you aren't a skilled keyboard player? It gets a lot trickier to use the black notes if you aren't sure what you are doing :-)
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by Johnsy »

MixAndMatch wrote:
Most pop music nowadays is in C maj.

Not according to this:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/a-chart-of-the- ... 1703086174
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by Eddy Deegan »

MixAndMatch wrote:Most pop music nowadays is in C maj.

I suspect this to be a case of most trolls preferring C-maj and do not predict a glittering future on the forum for them should they continue in the same vein ;)
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by IAA »

Simply put, the best results can be obtained in C. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourselves

Crikey, fancy Mozart, Rachmaninov, Bach, Handel, Wagner etc etc ...not knowing this! :headbang:
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by RichardT »

N i g e l wrote:
RichardT wrote: it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

No, under equal temperament all keys sound the ‘same’ - they are all wrong, I agree.
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by Aled Hughes »

RichardT wrote:
N i g e l wrote:
RichardT wrote: it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

No, under equal temperament all keys sound the ‘same’ - they are all wrong, I agree.

Surely not. Equal temperament is a way of incorporating all keys with 12 ‘fixed’ pitches, so the relationship/ratio between intervals/scale degrees inherently have to be compromised, so different keys could conceivably sound different.

Just tuning, on the other hand, maintains the same ratio between scale degrees/intervals in all keys, so it is these that will sound the ‘same’.
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by alanonguitar »

Ramirez wrote:Sorry if I’m missing something here, but surely you set it to the key of the song?


hi raimrez this is a comon misconstruction the best way to use automictune is in the key of c major this is because it connects directly too the emoshional center for the brian when i was at colledge many moons ago now haha our lecturor geof always said music is about emoshion get across a feeling so most impotran thing is obsrving the key for this kind of comminication as the op sayd this is c major befause it connects to the hart doesnt reallty matter the key of the song you fool haha

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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by RichardT »

Ramirez wrote:
RichardT wrote:
N i g e l wrote:
RichardT wrote: it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

No, under equal temperament all keys sound the ‘same’ - they are all wrong, I agree.

Surely not. Equal temperament is a way of incorporating all keys with 12 ‘fixed’ pitches, so the relationship/ratio between intervals/scale degrees inherently have to be compromised, so different keys could conceivably sound different.

Just tuning, on the other hand, maintains the same ratio between scale degrees/intervals in all keys, so it is these that will sound the ‘same’.

But yes - the semitone intervals in equal temperament are all the same (100 cents each) so the ratio of each pitch to the next is exactly the same. In other tunings, the 'semitone' intervals are not the same and this is what results in different intervals in different keys.

The price is that some of the intervals in equal temperament are not 'natural'.
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by Aled Hughes »

I don’t see how one interval can be more ‘natural’ than another.

With just intonation a perfect fifth, for example, has a frequency at a ratio of 3/2 of the root note. This is regardless of key. As such, the relationship between the pitches is the same in all keys, regardless of any absolute frequency values
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by RichardT »

Ramirez wrote:I don’t see how one interval can be more ‘natural’ than another.

With just intonation a perfect fifth, for example, has a frequency at a ratio of 3/2 of the root note. This is regardless of key. As such, the relationship between the pitches is the same in all keys, regardless of any absolute frequency values

Yes, but just intonation is specific to a key - just intonation in C major does not use the same pitches as just intonation in E. If you play an instrument tuned in just intonation in a different key from the intended one it can sound really bad.
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Re: What Key do you put your vocals in when using Auto Tune?

Post by Sam Spoons »

N i g e l wrote:
RichardT wrote: it’s quite common for musicians to give keys certain qualities. Before equal temperament, each key had slightly different intervals

no no no ! Equal temperment is the bodge.

Yup, it is but, RichardT, each key had slightly different intervals only when played on an instrument tuned with just intonation in a single key. Not sure I'm using the right words here*

The natural doh ray me ... scale exists for each of the base notes and are harmonious to the ear.

Yup, it does, it's also called 'just intonation'

The equal temperment scale is based on mathmatics that minimise the frequency error for each of the scales when they are compressed into 12 notes/frequencies.

Just intonation has mathematical intervals too but based on ratios of the root note which results in the semitones not being exactly the same.

[fretless instrument & gypsie jazz players stop laughing now !!!! ]

(stifles a giggle behind hand)

each of the scales therefore has differnt errors, giving different emotions & qualities.

In just intonation all the scales are identical, provided they are played on an instrument tuned for that specific scale, a melody in Bb will sound awful on an instrument tuned with just intonation in C and vice versa.

Modern synthesizers allow for the different rootnote/scales & its on my list of things todo once ive mastered the bigger picture of choosing the right notes, playing them in the right order & at the right time.

True,

in the mean time [normal times] listen to the Academy of ancient music, playing authentic scales on authentic instruments.

Hmmm

"If it isnt baroque dont fix it "

But it was so somebody did :D

* An instrument tuned in C Just will sound perfectly in tune when playing in C but more out of tune the further around the circle of fifths you move keys. An instrument tuned to an F#/Gb scale (C still = C but the scale intervals are calculated starting from G#) will be perfectly on tune playing in G# but 'orrible playing in C.
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