Equipment for recording neighbour noise

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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Doveman »

Avetius wrote:Hi guys, I found these pages having yhe same issue. Did you find a solution in the end? I might have one, if you are interested. It involves an inexpensive microphone type. Reach out so I know this topic is not closed.

Hi Avetius, I haven't really got anywhere with this, so I'd be interested in your potential solution.

I bought a MiniDSP UMIK-1 USB omnidirectional condenser mic as it was on sale quite cheap and I thought that being a USB mic it would avoid the typical noise with PC mic inputs. It does do a better job of picking up the troublesome noises than the Zoom recorder did but unfortunately there's quite a high noise floor still and the recordings don't give an accurate impression of how loud and intrusive the sounds actually are, so I need a better solution. The recordings show much higher peaks when a car is parking outside on the tarmac, which I can hear but is quite low-frequency and not intrusive or disturbing, whereas the noise of the person upstairs tapping/dropping stuff on the floor which is very sharp and intrusive and almost sounds as loud as someone doing that in my flat, doesn't create much of a peak at all.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Sam Spoons »

The issue you will both be having is that 'nuisance noise' does not need to be loud to be intrusive. Any recording or level monitoring system will record or measure what is there but cannot factor in the effect it is having on you, the occupants of the apartment. Just as we are very good at 'filtering out' ambience when we are in a room listening to a performance or holding a conversation we are excellent at focusing on very quiet sounds that catch our attention in a way that a noise meter or recording device can't.

A couple of personal experiences spring to mind, the most recent was as a sound engineer employed to monitor noise for a wedding venue I met with the environmental health officer for the local authority, his opinion was that, outside the complainants home (roughly ¼ mile from the venue) the extremely faint rhythmic noise from the disco* in the venue constituted a breach of the agreement and was 'nuisance noise'.

The second was when I was camping beside Rutland Water, I was kept awake at night by the constant low level thud of, an apparently illegal, rave taking place about 5 miles distant across the lake (it was felt rather than heard but still enough to be a 'nuisance').

* The venue was a huge marquee rather than a brick structure hence the low SPL inside. The difference opening the doors made was dramatic and people talking in fairly normal, but animated, voices outside were significantly louder than the 'music'. The M6 Motorway, 6 miles distant, was also as loud as the 'noise' but was a gentle drone rather than rhythmic thumping.
Last edited by Sam Spoons on Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by awjoe »

Doveman wrote:
I've actually just received the Zoom H4n whilst I was typing this. I've tested it and I'm not impressed, as it seems to have much the same noise as my phone does, which rather swamps out the sound I'm trying to record. I can't imagine anyone could use this to record nature noises, bird song, etc. due to the noise, so I wonder what people would use for that?

Way late to the party, but my first impression was that if the Zoom didn't pick up the noise well enough, there'd be no convincing anyone that noise levels were an issue. I'm not saying that suffering isn't in the equation somewhere. I mean, 'there'd be no convincing anyone that noise levels were an issue' wouldn't apply to you if ambient noise got on your nerves.

Now I'm going to read the rest of this thread and see if anybody else said that before me. I entertain myself thus.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Doveman »

Sam Spoons wrote:The issue you will both be having is that 'nuisance noise' does not need to be loud to be intrusive. Any recording or level monitoring system will record or measure what is there but cannot factor in the effect it is having on you, the occupants of the apartment. Just as we are very good at 'filtering out' ambience when we are in a room listening to a performance or holding a conversation we are excellent at focusing on very quiet sounds that catch our attention in a way that a noise meter or recording device can't.

Some noises that bother me, like my neighbour stomping on the floor, are probably a combination of low-frequency and vibration and not particularly loud in terms of db, so I understand why it would be hard to record those, same as the low level thuds of music that you describe. My friend would probably sleep through or not be bothered by this type of noise, whereas I find it very irritating.

However other noises, like my neighbour tapping/dropping things on the floor and slamming doors are very audible and anyone who's been in my flat when they've occurred has clearly heard them. They might not be as startled/disturbed by them as I am but that's a different issue to how audible they actually are and that's why I don't understand why I'm having such difficulty getting a decent recording of them.

My attempts to record these noises have shown that not any recording system will record them. My phone and the Zoom recorder were pretty useless and my UMIK-1 is much better but the recordings still don't properly represent how it actually sounds in the room. I think it's partly because of the mic's noise floor, as in reality there's no constant noise in the room, so when the intrusive noise occurs the contrast is very noticeable, whereas on the recording the noise floor means that when the intrusive noise occurs it doesn't stand out as much. I think there's more to it than just that however, as the recording doesn't properly capture the frequency characteristics of the sound, how sharp and 'ringy' it is, or how the items being dropped bounce several times before settling (I guess that could be partly vibration noise though, which would be hard to capture).

So I still think a better/different mic might be able to record the noise better. MiniDSP have the UMIK-2 now, which has a noise level of -105.3dBfs (A) @ 0 dB gain, compared to the specs for the UMIK-1 which say "Output noise level at max IGPA -74dBFS" but I might buy an Aston Element mic to see how that fares, as it has a very low noise floor and I could use that for other purposes too. I'd need a USB pre-amp/audio interface though which can do the Element justice and not introduce any noise of its own and I don't know if there's anything reasonably affordable that would fit the bill.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by BangBang »

Hi all,

I am looking to see what piece of kit to use to record a neighbour who bangs on our wall in the middle of the night and wakes us up. I am in Ireland and have spoken with the police, they have said my only option is to bring a civil case. I have a written record of every incident over a 2 year period and the police are aware of everything. They even asked her to enter into mediation with us but she wouldn't.

I was using Audacity on the laptop but can't get a great quality recording off it, you can hear the bangs but in reality they are a lot louder.

The original poster on this thread mentioned the Zoom, would you recommend this? We got soundproofing done upstairs so the banging is very loud to come through this and can be heard throughout the house at its worst.

Any help appreciated!
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Doveman »

I can't recommend the Zoom for this I'm afraid. It just won't record the low-frequency banging in a way which represents how loud it is in reality.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by ef37a »

As this thread and others before it have shown, it is very difficult for the layman to record nuisance noise in a way that is presentable as evidence but I will suggest a fairly inexpensive way to at least record the thumping.

The Citronics CCU3 capacitor USB microphone makes recording very simple. If you have nothing else Audacity is a good choice but don't forget to 'Export as .wav' because no other software will play Audacity's own file regime.

You still need a reference level and spoken word would probably do. You could record a log of the events in a steady, conversational sound level at a measured distance. Record at 16bits 44.1kHz and don't worry if the levels are very low in Audacity. Minus 30, even -40dBfs is still valid. The noise might be a blessed nuisance but you could be surprised at how low the actual level is. A sound level meter can be useful as well but you want one with a "C" weighting. "A" cuts off a lot of LF. You could use a phone app' I calibrated mine against a cheap C SPL meter by waiting until my room was subjectively 'silent' and that gave 28-35dBC on my meter.

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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Sam Spoons »

BangBang wrote:Hi all,

I am looking to see what piece of kit to use to record a neighbour who bangs on our wall in the middle of the night and wakes us up. I am in Ireland and have spoken with the police, they have said my only option is to bring a civil case. I have a written record of every incident over a 2 year period and the police are aware of everything. They even asked her to enter into mediation with us but she wouldn't.

This is the most useful piece of evidence you could have. As has been demonstrated recordings rarely live up to expectations because noise that is a nuisance always sounds much louder to those on the receiving end than it actually is. The recorder can only record what is there not the effect it is having on the occupants.

In the UK the people to approach would be the local environmental health department, I don't know how it is in Ireland but would be surprised if your local authority don't have something similar and if so it is much more their province than the Police.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Has anyone tried mounting a boundary zone mic (PZM) securely on the affected wall (or ceiling)?

The omni capsule should have a good low-frequency response, plus the physical contact might help to capture the transients, whilst also picking the in-room sound to give a sense of the relative levels of in-room speech and external noise.

I've never tried it, and don't know if it would work, but it seems an obvious thing to try and I've not seen any mention of this approach.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by ef37a »

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Has anyone tried mounting a boundary zone mic (PZM) securely on the affected wall (or ceiling)?

The omni capsule should have a good low-frequency response, plus the physical contact might help to capture the transients, whilst also picking the in-room sound to give a sense of the relative levels of in-room speech and external noise.

I've never tried it, and don't know if it would work, but it seems an obvious thing to try and I've not seen any mention of this approach.


Good idea Hugh but I don't know if the chap with the "banging" even has an audio interface?

I suggested the Citronics because I have tried two samples now and both have been very low of noise and decent of sensitivity and of course, a USB mic is plug and play (well, record!)

Dave.
Last edited by ef37a on Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by James Perrett »

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Has anyone tried mounting a boundary zone mic (PZM) securely on the affected wall (or ceiling)?

I guess you could also go the whole hog and use a contact mic but wouldn't that be considered cheating?
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Doveman »

James Perrett wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:Has anyone tried mounting a boundary zone mic (PZM) securely on the affected wall (or ceiling)?

I guess you could also go the whole hog and use a contact mic but wouldn't that be considered cheating?

If you have a problem with sound emanating from the walls, which can be very disturbing but not necessarily very loud in the room, that's probably a good way to capture it. As long as you explain what you've done and don't try to pretend that the recording was made by a mic in the middle of the room, then I don't think it's cheating.

I have this problem. With my own TV in my living room, the sound only travels into the wall it's against, which separates my living room from my bedroom and I can easily understand the dialogue if I put my ear against the bedroom side of the wall but when my neighbour (impossible to say which one as I live in a block of flats) has their TV/radio on, it radiates from all four walls in my bedroom, lounge and bathroom.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Doveman »

ef37a wrote:The Citronics CCU3 capacitor USB microphone makes recording very simple. If you have nothing else Audacity is a good choice but don't forget to 'Export as .wav' because no other software will play Audacity's own file regime..

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to try one of these to see how it compares to my UMIK-1 USB mic.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by ef37a »

Doveman wrote:
ef37a wrote:The Citronics CCU3 capacitor USB microphone makes recording very simple. If you have nothing else Audacity is a good choice but don't forget to 'Export as .wav' because no other software will play Audacity's own file regime..

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to try one of these to see how it compares to my UMIK-1 USB mic.

Oh dear. Did not know you had that. I doubt the Citronics is as good in terms of LF response and noise floor. You really do want an omni for flat, extended LF and the CCU3 is a cardioid. It is also less than half the price of the UMIK-1 and only 16 bit to boot.

I only suggested it because it is a very decent mic for the money and simple to use. Sounds fine to us for my son's classical guitar. Still, try one and take advantage of the return regulations if it does not suit?

Dave.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by BangBang »

Thanks all for the replies, good to gain a bit of further insight into what I can. That contact mic sounds like a good idea for what I am experiencing as the other she banged (or should I say slammed) on the wall at around 11:30pm and it shook the whole house, the contact mic would definitely pick that up very well.

I think I may get the Citronics CCU3 capacitor USB microphone anyway, but is there a decent and cheap contact mic you could recommend?

Btw agree with the previous poster on having a record of everything, I just want this as further proof and backup. I have a couple of other angles as well and add them all up and it is fairly conclusive hopefully.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Doveman »

ef37a wrote:Oh dear. Did not know you had that. I doubt the Citronics is as good in terms of LF response and noise floor. You really do want an omni for flat, extended LF and the CCU3 is a cardioid. It is also less than half the price of the UMIK-1 and only 16 bit to boot.

I only suggested it because it is a very decent mic for the money and simple to use. Sounds fine to us for my son's classical guitar. Still, try one and take advantage of the return regulations if it does not suit?

No worries. You weren't suggesting it for me specifically, I'm just curious to compare it to my UMIK-1 as it has quite a high noise floor (the UMIK-2 is supposed to be a lot better but that's about 3x more expensive) and as you say, I can easily return it if it's no better, although I might just gift it to my Dad as he's been getting back into playing his guitar recently.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by ef37a »

Doveman wrote:
ef37a wrote:Oh dear. Did not know you had that. I doubt the Citronics is as good in terms of LF response and noise floor. You really do want an omni for flat, extended LF and the CCU3 is a cardioid. It is also less than half the price of the UMIK-1 and only 16 bit to boot.

I only suggested it because it is a very decent mic for the money and simple to use. Sounds fine to us for my son's classical guitar. Still, try one and take advantage of the return regulations if it does not suit?

No worries. You weren't suggesting it for me specifically, I'm just curious to compare it to my UMIK-1 as it has quite a high noise floor (the UMIK-2 is supposed to be a lot better but that's about 3x more expensive) and as you say, I can easily return it if it's no better, although I might just gift it to my Dad as he's been getting back into playing his guitar recently.

Ok well it is well suited to acoustic guitar in son's and my opinion. The Mackie EM-91 is also a good budget standard LDC. Come with a mic cable as well!

Dave.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Csimon20 »

I’m dealing with similar issues. Any luck on recording the annoying sounds? Please let me know ASAP.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Doveman »

I've got the Citronics CCU3 USB mic and the MiniDSP UMIK-1 USB mic both connected to my laptop and I've used Voicemeeter to combine them into a single device, with the CCU3 panned left and the UMIK-1 panned right, so I can use Audacity to record them at the same time for comparison.

I've uploaded three WAV files and a MP3 file which you can download here:
https://mega.nz/folder/18QCGBxQ#zgC6KEUS1VKanzh8_u0Tqw

The CCU3 records quite a bit quieter than the UMIK-1. With the "radio and water pump" recording, I've boosted the left channel (the CCU3) by 9db, to bring the audio up to about the same level. With the other two WAV recordings, I haven't done that.

If you open them in Audacity (or any other program that lets you see the waveforms) you'll notice that the UMIK-1 shows peaks where there's nothing actually audible (on headphones at least), so I suspect it was picking up some low-frequency rumble, maybe from a car parking nearby. The CCU3 is more useful in that respect, as where it shows a peak there's normally something audible.

Both mics are quite noisy but the CCU3's noise is higher frequency and that's better for this, as it doesn't mask the noises I'm trying to record as much. So I'd recommended getting that rather than the UMIK-1 for recording this sort of thing.

The "washing machine" recording was made using both mics, before I converted it into a mono MP3. It doesn't really capture how intrusive the noise is, as it vibrates the whole structure of the building which the mic can't record. That applies to the other recordings too, as the impact noises and the water pump noise all have elements to them that can't be captured by these sort of mics. I haven't tried a boundary mic yet, so that might be worth a try.
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Re: Equipment for recording neighbour noise

Post by Tigerhawk »

Hello, I am also trying to record low frequency noise of my neighbors and make it audible on regular computer speakers. They are constantly stomping and setting off alarms.

I have tried a boundary microphone called the MXL AC-44 USB Condenser Microphone. It did not work. I also tried the Audio Technica AT2020 USB Cardioid Condenser Microphone and that did not work as well.

I managed to get the low frequency sounds audible on laptop speakers by increasing its gain in a audio recording software. I am not sure if that is considered acceptable evidence or tampering evidence. I assume its the latter.
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