Direct, Simple Question re: Guitar Amp Simulating Software

[Frank Rideau]

What about impulse responses (I'm asking really) ?

[rockydennis]

How about a Tech 21 SansAmp GT2? It's an analog pedal, not digital. Cheaper than a lot of plugins, though it's just amps and no effects. Plus, unlike plugins, you can find it used at a discount.
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/gt2/

[uselessoldman]

oh but Frank that is what most modern amps/cab sims are based around, hence no difference to any good sampled Kontakt library. Celestion themselves have their own speaker IR samples (algorithm) available on their website should you need or want to try them out.

From my own experience you cannot emulate the feel and tone of a Vintage30 without actually using one, nor G12T G12H or any other specific speaker for that matter. Some will argue the same about amp emulation, BUT I would argue different, I do believe some of the amps sims out there through say a Vintage30 can sound pretty decent and extremely close to the original if you are using a good quality power amp. That is why I bought and own various pairs of speakers, I found you needed them but you did not necessarily need all the amps sims are good enough

[resistorman]

Hardware, find a used eleven rack with the latest firmware in working order. It’s unbeatable in terms of what it does and price (now), and if you can’t get proper sounds out of it,, it’s not the unit. It makes recording in a DAW a breeze with the same feel as an amp.

Though you need to use the analogue or spdif out and not as an interface (AVID drivers suck)

Software, there’s plenty of free stuff that you can download?

You’ve piqued my interest in the 11, especially since I see they’re around $200 here in the US. I have NI Komplete with Guitar Rig, but I always have to deal with latency. Wondering how it stacks up (ahem) sound wise against that. I wouldn’t use the usb btw.

[resistorman]

Well, I ordered one for a little over $200. I figure I’ll be able to sell it easily if I don’t like it.

[CS70]

Exactly - ridiculous price. You're in for a good surprise, especially if you are used to battle with latency.

I hope the one you got has the latest firmware and the expansion pack installed - most do by this time (they're "latest" but pretty old by now), but just check.

As usual, most of the presets are a bit over the top, so after skimming them you want to build your own patches. Best to do on speakers rather than headphones.

And the best is that it's a perfect DI machine, over S/PDIF one of the channels is wet, the other is dry..

[CS70]

Rather than try to describe what I mean, here are a few of many examples (btw: If you aren't yet familiar with these guitarists and/or the equipment they used, you might wanna check 'em out someday ! ) :

- Gibson SG (with humbucking pickups) into cranked (max volume) Marshall amps
e.g. Eric Clapton w/Cream - 1968 - "Crossroads" from the "Wheels of Fire" album
...

I agree that nothing beats the immediacy of a nice tube amp, but keep in mind 99% of the sound on these tracks is the guitarist. Give Clapton an overdrivable amp and any guitar and he'll be able to make the Crossroads sound no problems (I love that version and misspent a lot of my youth playing it for hours in front of the cassette player).

[uselessoldman]

Question is can any of the amp sims produce that dynamic warm smooth distortion that makes a valve amp so uniquely sensuous? Clearly that is the challenge as that is the penultimate sound any musician wants expected and desires. But its not just the amp that creates that tone, your speakers are also JUST as critical and why its best to use a amp sim in conjunction with G12Hs if that is your target tone (in reference to Clapton).

Like a Boss Katana that some people rave about, is it good? Yeah its OK, for the money its nothing special. A box of tricks, something Boss have always been masters of so you would expect it to sound good.

In fact its two amps that create those warm smooth uniquely value tones. The initial saturation gain of the pre amp and the drive of the power amp. But I would still argue that quite a few amps sims do a pretty good impersonation !!

[resistorman]

I look at amp sims like any other plugin simulating analog gear. Does it sound good? Does it inspire me to create and mix music? Who cares if it’s 100% accurate...

[resistorman]

Exactly - ridiculous price. You're in for a good surprise, especially if you are used to battle with latency.

I hope the one you got has the latest firmware and the expansion pack installed - most do by this time (they're "latest" but pretty old by now), but just check.

As usual, most of the presets are a bit over the top, so after skimming them you want to build your own patches. Best to do on speakers rather than headphones.

And the best is that it's a perfect DI machine, over S/PDIF one of the channels is wet, the other is dry..

The listing said the expansion pack is installed, so I should be good to go. Thanks!

[Watchmaker]

I've been using IK Amplitube for years and I simply go to amp models I like and use the knobs as if I were using a real amp. Usually I'm dialing in the same tone I'd go for in a real amp. I don't find using the plug-in less expressive or engaging than cranking up the mini-recto or custom reverb and I don't have latency issues. I'm running a modest 8 year old iMac.

The development of IR technology is blowing my mind and I'm finding it hard to keep up with the different things that are going on these days so I'm sticking with what I know until someone pushes me outta the rockin chair.

[The Elf]

I look at amp sims like any other plugin simulating analog gear. Does it sound good? Does it inspire me to create and mix music? Who cares if it’s 100% accurate...

Any prize off the fourth shelf, mate!

[Gutter Pup]

uselessoldman (btw: can I go by 'anotheruselessoldman" ? Sorry, I'm not clear on what you are recommending when you said:

But its not just the amp that creates that tone, your speakers are also
just as critical and why its best to use a amp sim in conjunction with G12Hs if that
is your target tone (in reference to Clapton).

Sorry if I'm being lame here, but, how do you use amp sim software with an
actual amp ?

Well, I'm coming to realize that my expectations of amp sim software are just too unrealistic. Sigh - I'll probably just drag an amp with a removable speaker jack out of the studio, and use a Palmer ADIG-LP PGA-04 speaker simulator/load box . . . (which, frankly, I rarely use as I am underwhelmed by it as well).

Caveat: I'm just an old curmudgeon, who, unfortunately, has lived all of his life in this satanic, hell hole of a pit - otherwise known as "Los Angeles" (translated, means City of the Angeles ). I helped manage a cool guitar/drum shop when I was a "kid" (40 + yrs ago !), and tried out and/or heard basically every (non-handmade/non-custom) guitar, amp, and pedal that was commercially available (at least in the USA) back then, have read countless different guitar/recording magazines over the years (my wife is always on my butt to get rid of them, so I'm now down to about 100 or so copies), saw tons of local bands, and knew the equipment of most, and have gone to way too many NAMM shows. Why do I bother telling you this ? It's just because I'm hoping that it might help explain why I am being such a pain in the ass, and am a bit weary of the age-old claims/hype by some equipment manufacturers that "this [blank] is revolutionary, and sounds just as good as, or far better than, a real tube amp" . . .

Anyway, to your relief, I'll finally shut up now, take out my teeth, and drink a laxative . . .
it's 11:24 pm, hell hole time.

[The Elf]

Well, I'm coming to realize that my expectations of amp sim software are just too unrealistic.

I don't think so. It works for many people. The problem is that nagging doubt - many people just use them and have done with it - and are being heard on recordings every day with nobody worrying a jot about it.

[rggillespie]

I'm feeling similarly to you Gutter Pup, there's something very uninspiring using simulations. I've tried the line 6 pod, then amplitude and now the Strymon iridium but not hit it off with any of them. But for the neighbours, I would play through and mic up my amp, that's the sound I recognize and it has the scale of an electric guitar that I love. I'm inspired to play and record. Playing through my pc and hearing it back through my monitors/headphones is just a flat experience in comparison. It's like being there and seeing a great landscape, whereas the amp simulation is like looking at a photo of that great landscape. Different strokes for different folks I suppose, and they work great for plenty of people, I'm just not feeling much love for it. I'm reading up on the universal audio ox now, it seems highly rated but I suspect I will still feel removed from the process, and its not cheap. Its a tough nut to crack, hope you find a solution that works for you.

[CS70]

Well, I'm coming to realize that my expectations of amp sim software are just too unrealistic.

They aren't. You just get what you believe you will get. The main issue of age is that you forget your beliefs are just that - and that some might be wrong, some might be right and some might have once been right, but they have now turned to wrong. Age is about crystallized beliefs. And back pain, I hear.

Sure sometimes you have to do the same you would with real amps - try and try different combinations until you find the magic (which is why I still have a dozen amps... never been one to sell equipment!).

For example, I spent the better part of last week trying at least half a dozen combos to get a specific sound I have in mind for a guitar line, but haven't managed yet. I know I get it with the Mesa, my pedalboard and a well-positioned microphone, but since the studio is closed due to lockdown and I'm stuck home and so is all the family, a miked amp is simply not an option (the amp is too loud and the room is never quiet enough).

So today or tomorrow I'm gonna try the Mesa with a loadbox and a BluBox cab emulator. I've been looking at the Torpedo Captor X and the Shur IR but gotta exhaust the options I have already first.

[resistorman]

Well, I received my Eleven Rack and it is in excellent condition... it even had the protective plastic film still attached to the display. Turning it on, I was underwhelmed, it just sounded thin and had a strange clipping distortion no matter what I did. However, when I went into settings and restored the factory defaults, it came to life. It just sounds great. Thanks CS70 for the recommendation!

Now to programming and re-growing callouses on the flanges...

[uselessoldman]

We are debating simulators compared to the original gear and how to get the most authentic sounds. There is no debate about quality, whether they compare well to the real deal, just watch some Rigg rundowns on youtube and you will soon realise some of the best known most famous musicians use them all the time. If it is good enough for them, there can be no argument, it just has to be good enough for most people.

You cannot expect a sim using your computers soundcard and into headphones to produce the best sounds? You would never do that to the real amp would you? what would be the point? and yes I know people will do it cos some have a headphones out jack, a Boss??

I have tried most of the amp sims and they are mostly all good, very good even but I am playing into quality amps and the original Celestion speakers. For those who are trying to emulate both the amp and speakers well that is a double challenge. Do these people actually know what a JCM and V30 really sound like? They sound completely different if on quarter volume and overdriven, the magic of a sim is you get almost the same tone no matter what volume you play at, but never expect your soundcard and headphones or computer speakers to get close, that is not fair on them

[CS70]

For those who are trying to emulate both the amp and speakers well that is a double challenge. Do these people actually know what a JCM and V30 really sound like?

No particularly into the debate as it's been beaten do death - and died - a long time ago.

But as a fact: "those who are trying to emulate both the amp and speakers" are usually companies which have warehouses full of vintage hardware, in well maintained conditions, for accumulated value of double your average McMansion; and which spend months if not years painstakingly comparing their results with each of the real things.

If anybody knows what a JCM and V30 really sound like, it's these guys...

[CS70]

Well, I received my Eleven Rack and it is in excellent condition... it even had the protective plastic film still attached to the display. Turning it on, I was underwhelmed, it just sounded thin and had a strange clipping distortion no matter what I did. However, when I went into settings and restored the factory defaults, it came to life. It just sounds great. Thanks CS70 for the recommendation!

Now to programming and re-growing callouses on the flanges...

Cool. There's only two things to keep in mind: one, the naming and GUI position of the "rig no cab" setting (which you use when you want to use the rack as an amp head) is misleading, as it seems it applies only to the "output to amp" output socket - but it will actually apply to all outputs (since there's only one physical signal path).

The naming and the GUI has tricked many people, including yours truly at start. That's probably why it sounded fizzy - someone must have tried it with a physical cabinet and set it to "rig no cab".

The second things is that - if you use it as a USB interface - you cannot disable hardware monitoring unless you are in a version of Protools which was current when the rack was new. Obviously ProTools sent some hidden command to the unit over USB, which no other DAW knows about.

However, the feature is no longer present in newer versions of Protools, which means that with current software you cannot disable hardware monitoring, full stop. This is annoying should you want to use a USB-connected 11rack as an input stage to feed a software emulation (I discovered it trying to use MIDI guitar after reading Paul's review, I think).

However, I've had it connected via s/pdif to the RME for the many years (the USB drivers weren't very stable back when I tried) and obviously the problem does not exist when connected like that. Since I dont care for loading/unloading patches with the editor, I need no USB connection at all.