mikehende wrote:Yes of course vinyl is a reproduction of tape [reel to reel] which is the best analogue sound.
TBF vinyl is a pretty poor reproduction of analogue tape, reduced bass with no sides component, more distortion and speed anomalies, crackles and hiss, distortion and all the other vinyl weaknesses added to the faults inherent in tape as a recording medium. But, I like playing old guitars through valve amps*, if it makes you happy then go to it
* Like Alex I won't be going back to vinyl or tape anytime soon.
and there lies the difference, analogue vinyl lets you off with a poor recording and mix whilst digital shows every error made there is no where to hide and no forgiveness. So when vinyl is transferred to digital all is exposed and transparent.
But that opens up a new playing field for me. I can RX8 the tracks split them and add superior drummer and EZBass then some tricks with the vocals. Afterwards if I am still not happy out comes my guitars.
But seriously some vinyl's are nothing short of shocking, but then back in the day what I played them on would cause more sound distortion than any issues with the actual recordings. Now with a decent system there just bad, some are really bad, but others are really good seriously good.
mikehende wrote:
However, in the same way that my memories haven't faded, I really do not think that my hearing capabilities have changed all that much.
We all think that!
Simple fact is that your hearing capabilities have changed. It's just that it happens so relatively slowly that you don't realise it's happening.
... and as for your earlier comment about 'listening on the same setups that the bands used when playing live'... good luck with that. Back in the day, live sound systems were really pretty dreadful.... and huge!
Last edited by Mike Stranks on Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
mikehende wrote:
However, in the same way that my memories haven't faded, I really do not think that my hearing capabilities have changed all that much.
We all think that!
Simple fact is that your hearing capabilities have changed. It's just that it happens so relatively slowly that you don't realise it's happening.
... and as for your earlier comment about 'listening on the same setups that the bands used when playing live'... good luck with that. Back in the day, live sound systems were really pretty dreadful.... and huge!
Speaking for myself, if it is fact that my hearing has changed it still does not prevent me from recognizing the original sound of the 60s/70s.
As for the live music situation what you and others consider to be "dreadful" I consider it to be authentic as that was the real listening environment and sound. I used to be a drummer in those days in my Uncle's band so whether it was dreadful or not, to me, at that time [and now still] I appreciate it and always will. Enough said.
Good and accurate summation bob. Also worth mentioning that the pioneers/jegends of that time didn't really have much options regarding music equipment, they were limited only to what was available at that time.
Nowadays, tons of gear and many options of each type of gear is available so it's apples and oranges really.
I was brought up watching bands live, the records were a sad substitution since they never got close to being there in real life watching them. I was also not one for listening to a full album, unless it was Tull Zep Rush, Pink Floyd or a few and very few artists who made an album worth listening to. As for the quality of tape or for that matter vinyl, we knew nothing else, it was all we had and so there was nothing to compare it to. Also who had a stereo radio back in the day? maybe our parents? we certainly never had, it was a small transistor radio under the covers late at night listening to Johnny Peel.
As for quality there is a certain beauty to rawness unclinical and often amateurish music, everyone has to start somewhere and they were easy to play along with, nothing to technical. With digital auto tune melodyne etc everything now has to be just perfect, boring as $%&.
But what matters is the song not necessarily the way or how its played. A good song will always be a good song no matter what the quality. I sit here surrounded by digital toys, but in the end I still like to lift up a guitar switch the amp on and make a racket, or use a keyboard sometimes even both. A certain pleasure in my madness
uselessoldman wrote: As for the quality of tape or for that matter vinyl, we knew nothing else, it was all we had and so there was nothing to compare it to. Also who had a stereo radio back in the day? maybe our parents? we certainly never had, it was a small transistor radio under the covers late at night listening to Johnny Peel.
As for quality there is a certain beauty to rawness unclinical and often amateurish music, everyone has to start somewhere and they were easy to play along with, nothing to technical. With digital auto tune melodyne etc everything now has to be just perfect, boring as $%&.
But what matters is the song not necessarily the way or how its played. A good song will always be a good song no matter what the quality. I sit here surrounded by digital toys, but in the end I still like to lift up a guitar switch the amp on and make a racket, or use a keyboard sometimes even both. A certain pleasure in my madness
All great and accurate points too and seems we are both cut from the same cloth, maybe since we are both musicians from back then is why we see this old vs new in the same light?
In my uncle's band we did not have a mixing board or any signal processing equipment. Only a 3 piece drum set, lead and bass guitars, one mic, keyboard and Fender Amps so what you heard was only raw sound. Finance was a major issue and also getting transportation to gigs.
I still prefer live to recorded music as usually the live version's music will be different aside from the obvious.
I'm the same age as some of the main contributors to this thread but I know that my hearing has very obviously degraded from my younger days. Just this morning I realised that I could no longer hear the 12.5kHz test tone on the tape that I was transferring.
I'd also like to put in a good word for vintage audio gear. Not all of it is like the stuff that Mike seems to be collecting. To the uninformed those Fisher speakers might look a bit like Yamaha NS1000's with their three drivers stacked vertically and the white coned woofers. Now NS1000's are still very highly thought of today because they used innovative beryllium drivers and were properly designed. The Fishers probably used 3 random drivers that looked vaguely right.
Earlier this morning Hugh and Mike Stranks were extolling the virtues of the Garrard 301 which was designed in the 1950's.
Real audio pioneers used quality gear which sounded much better than much of the home audio gear around today.
As mentioned the Fisher speakers I have right now is not what I am after and looking for, they are from 1984 in any case. Far as memory serves I had 15" 3-way from either Pioneer, Fisher, Kenwood or Technics brands so I am trying to track down which were ones I had between 78-82 time period and mainly for nostalgic reasons.
I was never and still not an "Audiophile" since I prefer raw sound. Yes James, there are quality vintage gear but for some it may not qualify as quality sound especially if compared to what's available today with digital or what I term to be "artificial" sound..
Last edited by mikehende on Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's interesting to see how far we'd pursue "authentic" with our live music.
Pink Floyd and The Beatles are among my passions, though I never saw either live.
Nick Mason's Saucerful of Secrets - Nick & an assortment of artists playing early Floyd music - at their launch night a few years ago at Dingwalls through a contemporary PA was phenomenal, and felt like it delivered the best representation of Floyd's legendary UFO gigs from another age.
But, if the Beatles were still around and playing at Shea Stadium, would anyone these days be content with seeing them using the same PA they used at the time. Fully authentic, maybe, but really a bit crap.
AlecSp wrote:But, if the Beatles were still around and playing at Shea Stadium, would anyone these days be content with seeing them using the same PA they used at the time. Fully authentic, maybe, but really a bit crap.
Alright lol. I'll give you that one, it's a good point.
Strange but if I had the choice between watching live, The Beatles or Oasis, I would choose the latter. As much as I admire what they did I just could never be a fan and all those screaming girls? no thanks, my poor old ears.
Ah yes those Yamaha NS1000s, if I didn't already have a room full of various spurious speakers I would very much still like a pair of them. I did actually look at a pair and nearly bought them before I bought the Adams, for some reason, I guess after my 01x experience, Yamaha was still and still is a sore point with me.
What is different today is Bands now use a PA system over a long line of 4x12 cabs. Having seen AC/DC Motorhead etc they never needed a PA for those Cinema gigs, what they used was more than loud enough. Yes festivals were different, but I don't remember many if any sounded specifically bad? But then festivals were ok but I preferred smaller gigs, less mud.
Martin Walker wrote:I never realised that went on!
The fake cab arms war for looks has been a thing for decades.
These days, it's much more about using isocabs to keep stage volumes low, and get instantly reproducable guitar sound. Leave guitar cabs on stage for cosmetics if you must.
Answers on a postcard please to the usual address)
