Turning points in your guitar playing...?

For all things relating to guitars, basses, amps, pedals & accessories.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by Wonks »

Music Wolf wrote:I was practicing with my new band last week and I messed up in the middle of one song. The singer was delighted because it took some of the pressure off her to learn that I was capable of a mistake.


Was she aware that you are allowed one a year?
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11929 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Reading, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by Murray B »

shufflebeat wrote:Paid gigs, preferably with other people, and the wherewithal to record and review them.


+1 There is nothing like having to stand up in front of an audience to encourage you to try and get stuff right - especially if you are being paid to be there.

Recording rehearsals, jams etc is useful too - work out what's working, what isn't and spend time on the stuff that needs it.

To the OP - I just thought of a load of other stuff but I don't know what you know, what you can already do etc...

So if you have any specific goals or things that aren't as you'd like them - I might be able to help as others here might too?

There is a caveat in that I cannot play speed metal, don't do 7 strings and can still only dream about getting my hybrid picking technique up to performance standard - I think I'm going to need about another 300 - 400 hours work on that one :)
User avatar
Murray B
Regular
Posts: 227 Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:00 am Location: Staffordshire

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by Dave.P »

Murray B wrote:The frustration for me is that I'm 20 years into trying to undo all of the bad technique I started off with and I'm still not quite there yet! :geek:


So agree on that - I went to a guitar teacher after 30 years of playing only to be ripped to shreds for bad technique. Because I have long fingers I have never really been forced to use my pinky. I am now using it, but the guitar teacher not at all, as the attitude was there is only one way in the universe to do things!
There surely are best practices of course and as soon as you know those the better.
User avatar
Dave.P
Regular
Posts: 99 Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by Murray B »

Dave.P wrote:
Murray B wrote:The frustration for me is that I'm 20 years into trying to undo all of the bad technique I started off with and I'm still not quite there yet! :geek:


So agree on that - I went to a guitar teacher after 30 years of playing only to be ripped to shreds for bad technique. Because I have long fingers I have never really been forced to use my pinky. I am now using it, but the guitar teacher not at all, as the attitude was there is only one way in the universe to do things!
There surely are best practices of course and as soon as you know those the better.


You can sound great and sell a lot of records even if you aren't using perfect technique of course, but you can hit a wall where you can only get better by looking if you are using your hands in the most effective / efficient way. It's the same with music theory - you don't have to know to in order to make really good music, but if you do it makes it easy to make music with other people.
User avatar
Murray B
Regular
Posts: 227 Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:00 am Location: Staffordshire

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by BJG145 »

Murray B wrote:To the OP - I just thought of a load of other stuff but I don't know what you know, what you can already do etc...So if you have any specific goals or things that aren't as you'd like them - I might be able to help as others here might too?


I'm in a Blues band who don't mind me attempting guitar solos, I have a nice Tele, and
gigs coming up...I just never really clicked with guitar somehow, I feel very basic at it but I'd love to get better. I never learned covers, and I haven't spent enough time practising arpeggios. Those are two of the things I've picked up from this thread so far. :)

At the moment, when I pick it up I mainly play scales and pentatonic riffs.

OK, this is embarrassing but here's a video. I'm at the back on the right. I'm not proud of it. I don't usually play guitar with this lot but they tolerate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Bq6g7JID8

In terms of aspiration, there's a few handy Blues guitarists here in Norwich and I'd be happy to be able to pull out this kind of stuff by Ron Sayer Jr.

https://youtu.be/lD9eVnV8LIY?t=217
User avatar
BJG145
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5378 Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:00 am

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by Music Wolf »

Wonks wrote:
Music Wolf wrote:I was practicing with my new band last week and I messed up in the middle of one song. The singer was delighted because it took some of the pressure off her to learn that I was capable of a mistake.


Was she aware that you are allowed one a year?


Yes, and last year's mistake was my choice of bass player :headbang: . Auditions take place tomorrow, I'll let others be the judge this time.
User avatar
Music Wolf
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2446 Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:00 am Location: Exiled to St Helens

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by merlyn »

@BJG145 I had a listen to both videos. It seemed to me Ron Sayer Jr. is playing what he hears. He thinks of a line and it comes out.

Some things I noticed :

- Vibrato
- Bends -- some tones some minor thirds. At one point he plays a line by bending one note different amounts
- Patterns -- an idea (a short phrase) is moved through the scale. In words that may seem a bit dry and academic but it sounds good. You can do this just by using the same rhythm.
- Syncopation -- playing on off beats
- Phrasing -- making a phrase sound like it's aiming for the end

I don't imagine any of that went through his head at the time. He heard it.
merlyn
Regular
Posts: 352 Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:15 am
It ain't what you don't know. It's what you know that ain't so.

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by Murray B »

BJG145 wrote:
Murray B wrote:To the OP - I just thought of a load of other stuff but I don't know what you know, what you can already do etc...So if you have any specific goals or things that aren't as you'd like them - I might be able to help as others here might too?


I'm in a Blues band who don't mind me attempting guitar solos, I have a nice Tele, and
gigs coming up...I just never really clicked with guitar somehow, I feel very basic at it but I'd love to get better. I never learned covers, and I haven't spent enough time practising arpeggios. Those are two of the things I've picked up from this thread so far. :)

At the moment, when I pick it up I mainly play scales and pentatonic riffs.

OK, this is embarrassing but here's a video. I'm at the back on the right. I'm not proud of it. I don't usually play guitar with this lot but they tolerate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Bq6g7JID8

In terms of aspiration, there's a few handy Blues guitarists here in Norwich and I'd be happy to be able to pull out this kind of stuff by Ron Sayer Jr.

https://youtu.be/lD9eVnV8LIY?t=217


Nothing to be embarrassed about there!

The minor pentatonic is kind of the go to scale for most blues music but you can mix it up a bit and use some of the other notes from chords or drop into a major pentatonic here and there. In the second video is a good example of the stuff I was going on about earlier - very clean string bends and lots of nicely done vibrato.

A useful exercise that I know I should do more of is to learn the pentatonic scales in more positions - for example E minor pent:

Most people know the one starting on the open E string and at the 12th fret

The challenge is also to play it from the 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th frets.

It's also handy that the major pentatonic is the same pattern but starts 3 frets lower (second note of the pattern is the root, again learning the notes all the way up the neck so you drop into it anywhere is a useful thing to do.

Mix em up a bit and see how you get on.

As far as covers go it's a useful exercise if you have the time - try copying some of the Buddy Guy or Rocky Athas (for a more modern take) tunes and licks.
User avatar
Murray B
Regular
Posts: 227 Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:00 am Location: Staffordshire

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by paul tha other »

for me i have 2 things where i can remember my playing moving up a level..my first multi-effects unit that had more than 1 delay in it..it changed my playing overnight...introduced me to economic playing (ie not playing much but the effects doing the work for me)

2nd was my fender twin...it also changed my playing over night..before i had it , i was using a laney linebacker(which i thought was awesome at the time) but i was always fighting to be heard in the band then i got the twin..i had power i never had before,so instead of hitting my guitar realy hard, it made me being gentle with my guitar .also introduced me to dynamics...if you play hard all the time you have nowhere to go if you want to execute build ups etc

the one revelation i had is when i heard a story from the guy from rage against the machine.before they hit the big time ,apperntly the band van got broke into and he lost all his guitar stuff..the record label game him $1000 or something and he went to a pawn shop and bought what he could with the money..this sentance will stay with me forever..he said"all i could afford was a beat up marshall head and a telecaster (i think),oh well this is what i have to make music with , so lets make some music"

when i was younger i lusted after the latest pedals and amps and expensive guitars ,thinking if i bought this £3000 guitar then i will be a better player or songwriter.truth is i was having a crisis of confidance and my playing was fine really ..i just didnt believe it
paul tha other
Frequent Poster
Posts: 685 Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:00 am Location: scotland
http://www.myspace.com/onemanandalaptop

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by BobTheDog »

For me the most important turning point was playing with people who were better than me and playing live a lot.

Secondly practising a lot to make sure when I played with people and played live I could do do it effortlessly.

The next turning point was practising things that were totally outside of my ability until I could effortlessly play them live with no arse ups, this takes time. When I was in my late 20s I decided I should be able to play lots of Satriani songs effortlessly live, the level of effort I had to put into this was astounding, it really made me realise my technical inabilities. After an inordinate number of hours practising though I could actually do it.

Which then led on to keeping practising new stuff beyond my ability which is where it all fell apart with a major turning point where I stopped playing guitar at all for 10 years because I hated it.

Now I just noodle around, 30 to 60 minutes a day rather than hours and hours of playing, much happier.
User avatar
BobTheDog
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1579 Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:00 am
Signature block of the week.

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by Sam Spoons »

Ron Sayer Jnr is a tidy player, some nice licks and good note choices but what stands out for me is his phrasing, he doesn't start and finish phrases in the obvious places which adds interest.

WRT your playing in the other clip, there are some nice licks but you need to pay more attention to the singer and fit your fills in between their vocal lines.

But, try copying other blues players and learning their licks*, you will develop your own style as an amalgam of the different players you emulate and will sound like you.

* Theory is not so useful for blues playing which is an aural tradition so learning by listening and recreating those who came before is the way.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 15856 Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am Location: Manchester UK
Your karma has run over my dogma

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by BobTheDog »

Sam Spoons wrote:WRT your playing in the other clip, there are some nice licks but you need to pay more attention to the singer and fit your fills in between their vocal lines.


BJG145:

I just listened through the clip a couple of times and this is very good advice from Mr Spoons.

If you are going to play at the same time as the singing then back off the volume and keep it simple so you are adding to it underneath rather than overpowering it.

In general my advice would be to always keep it simple, play stuff you know you can play perfectly with spot on timing and feeling rather than more twiddly stuff you may not be able to pull off perfectly (yet).
User avatar
BobTheDog
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1579 Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:00 am
Signature block of the week.

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by BJG145 »

BobTheDog wrote:...this is very good advice from Mr Spoons...In general my advice would be to always keep it simple, play stuff you know you can play perfectly with spot on timing and feeling rather than more twiddly stuff you may not be able to pull off...


It's good advice. Looking back at those clips I can see that I need to think about simple, confident phrases in the spaces. Ta. :thumbup:

PS The singer is terrific.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhSJ3z5zv2o
User avatar
BJG145
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5378 Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:00 am

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by DC-Choppah »

Joe Pass

Chord substitutions give rise to soloing ideas

Chords and tonal centers change every beat

Eye opening
User avatar
DC-Choppah
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1799 Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:00 am Location: MD, USA

Re: Turning points in your guitar playing...?

Post by Moroccomoose »

For me, playing in a band was a huge pivot point....interestingly, leaving a band was an equally significant pivot point...just in the wrong direction. For me its about having a reason to really practice properly...as opposed to just noodling which I find myself doing just now. Keep pushing the boundaries! (I should follow my own advice! :headbang: )
Stu.
Moroccomoose
Regular
Posts: 357 Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:00 am Location: Leicester
Post Reply