Turning points in your guitar playing...?

[Music Wolf]

I was practicing with my new band last week and I messed up in the middle of one song. The singer was delighted because it took some of the pressure off her to learn that I was capable of a mistake.

Was she aware that you are allowed one a year?

Yes, and last year's mistake was my choice of bass player . Auditions take place tomorrow, I'll let others be the judge this time.

[merlyn]

@BJG145 I had a listen to both videos. It seemed to me Ron Sayer Jr. is playing what he hears. He thinks of a line and it comes out.

Some things I noticed :

- Vibrato
- Bends -- some tones some minor thirds. At one point he plays a line by bending one note different amounts
- Patterns -- an idea (a short phrase) is moved through the scale. In words that may seem a bit dry and academic but it sounds good. You can do this just by using the same rhythm.
- Syncopation -- playing on off beats
- Phrasing -- making a phrase sound like it's aiming for the end

I don't imagine any of that went through his head at the time. He heard it.

[Murray B]

To the OP - I just thought of a load of other stuff but I don't know what you know, what you can already do etc...So if you have any specific goals or things that aren't as you'd like them - I might be able to help as others here might too?

I'm in a Blues band who don't mind me attempting guitar solos, I have a nice Tele, and
gigs coming up...I just never really clicked with guitar somehow, I feel very basic at it but I'd love to get better. I never learned covers, and I haven't spent enough time practising arpeggios. Those are two of the things I've picked up from this thread so far.

At the moment, when I pick it up I mainly play scales and pentatonic riffs.

OK, this is embarrassing but here's a video. I'm at the back on the right. I'm not proud of it. I don't usually play guitar with this lot but they tolerate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Bq6g7JID8

In terms of aspiration, there's a few handy Blues guitarists here in Norwich and I'd be happy to be able to pull out this kind of stuff by Ron Sayer Jr.

https://youtu.be/lD9eVnV8LIY?t=217

Nothing to be embarrassed about there!

The minor pentatonic is kind of the go to scale for most blues music but you can mix it up a bit and use some of the other notes from chords or drop into a major pentatonic here and there. In the second video is a good example of the stuff I was going on about earlier - very clean string bends and lots of nicely done vibrato.

A useful exercise that I know I should do more of is to learn the pentatonic scales in more positions - for example E minor pent:

Most people know the one starting on the open E string and at the 12th fret

The challenge is also to play it from the 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th frets.

It's also handy that the major pentatonic is the same pattern but starts 3 frets lower (second note of the pattern is the root, again learning the notes all the way up the neck so you drop into it anywhere is a useful thing to do.

Mix em up a bit and see how you get on.

As far as covers go it's a useful exercise if you have the time - try copying some of the Buddy Guy or Rocky Athas (for a more modern take) tunes and licks.

[paul tha other]

for me i have 2 things where i can remember my playing moving up a level..my first multi-effects unit that had more than 1 delay in it..it changed my playing overnight...introduced me to economic playing (ie not playing much but the effects doing the work for me)

2nd was my fender twin...it also changed my playing over night..before i had it , i was using a laney linebacker(which i thought was awesome at the time) but i was always fighting to be heard in the band then i got the twin..i had power i never had before,so instead of hitting my guitar realy hard, it made me being gentle with my guitar .also introduced me to dynamics...if you play hard all the time you have nowhere to go if you want to execute build ups etc

the one revelation i had is when i heard a story from the guy from rage against the machine.before they hit the big time ,apperntly the band van got broke into and he lost all his guitar stuff..the record label game him $1000 or something and he went to a pawn shop and bought what he could with the money..this sentance will stay with me forever..he said"all i could afford was a beat up marshall head and a telecaster (i think),oh well this is what i have to make music with , so lets make some music"

when i was younger i lusted after the latest pedals and amps and expensive guitars ,thinking if i bought this £3000 guitar then i will be a better player or songwriter.truth is i was having a crisis of confidance and my playing was fine really ..i just didnt believe it

[Guest]

For me the most important turning point was playing with people who were better than me and playing live a lot.

Secondly practising a lot to make sure when I played with people and played live I could do do it effortlessly.

The next turning point was practising things that were totally outside of my ability until I could effortlessly play them live with no arse ups, this takes time. When I was in my late 20s I decided I should be able to play lots of Satriani songs effortlessly live, the level of effort I had to put into this was astounding, it really made me realise my technical inabilities. After an inordinate number of hours practising though I could actually do it.

Which then led on to keeping practising new stuff beyond my ability which is where it all fell apart with a major turning point where I stopped playing guitar at all for 10 years because I hated it.

Now I just noodle around, 30 to 60 minutes a day rather than hours and hours of playing, much happier.

[Sam Spoons]

Ron Sayer Jnr is a tidy player, some nice licks and good note choices but what stands out for me is his phrasing, he doesn't start and finish phrases in the obvious places which adds interest.

WRT your playing in the other clip, there are some nice licks but you need to pay more attention to the singer and fit your fills in between their vocal lines.

But, try copying other blues players and learning their licks*, you will develop your own style as an amalgam of the different players you emulate and will sound like you.

* Theory is not so useful for blues playing which is an aural tradition so learning by listening and recreating those who came before is the way.

[Guest]

WRT your playing in the other clip, there are some nice licks but you need to pay more attention to the singer and fit your fills in between their vocal lines.

BJG145:

I just listened through the clip a couple of times and this is very good advice from Mr Spoons.

If you are going to play at the same time as the singing then back off the volume and keep it simple so you are adding to it underneath rather than overpowering it.

In general my advice would be to always keep it simple, play stuff you know you can play perfectly with spot on timing and feeling rather than more twiddly stuff you may not be able to pull off perfectly (yet).

[BJG145]

...this is very good advice from Mr Spoons...In general my advice would be to always keep it simple, play stuff you know you can play perfectly with spot on timing and feeling rather than more twiddly stuff you may not be able to pull off...

It's good advice. Looking back at those clips I can see that I need to think about simple, confident phrases in the spaces. Ta.

PS The singer is terrific.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhSJ3z5zv2o

[DC-Choppah]

Joe Pass

Chord substitutions give rise to soloing ideas

Chords and tonal centers change every beat

Eye opening

[Moroccomoose]

For me, playing in a band was a huge pivot point....interestingly, leaving a band was an equally significant pivot point...just in the wrong direction. For me its about having a reason to really practice properly...as opposed to just noodling which I find myself doing just now. Keep pushing the boundaries! (I should follow my own advice! )
Stu.

[uselessoldman]

I don't think there are many if any secrets to become an accomplished musician. Its like any academic subject, do the practice learn the theory (revision), dedicate yourself and block out any distractions. Whilst its true some naturally appear to be able to play without much effort or dedication, others like myself try as much as I do, would and could never dream of being half as good as many and maybe just as good as some. I am a naturally born bad player, I just accept it. Give me a broken computer and I could probably guess whats wrong, fix it with my eyes shut ring circles round 99.9% of people, but a guitar? I have owned a guitar since I was 17, played on and off, love it absolutely in love with it, but play it competently? I just accept its not to be, does not mean I still do not enjoy making a racket now and then.

But can I honestly say I have devoted the right amount of time, dedicated myself, been disciplined? Absolutely not a complete failure. I have far to many distractions in life, girlfriends pub beer playing WOT far to much (gaming), there is just never enough hours in the day. I sit here in front of thousands of pound of equipment, various amps just about every speaker you can think of in cabs I have customised, played with experimented on. I still get a significantly amount of pleasure playing guitar and keyboards it has taught me a lot, but its only ever going to be a hobby one of my interests and one of those things I do to in my spare time to relax and enjoy myself.

I admire those who have mastered their discipline, we all have something inside us we are good at, finding it however, can be the challenge. Yes I can play along to my favourite songs maybe not perfectly but its adequate, close maybe but anyone could tell its not quite there.... and it never will be

[Drew Stephenson]

It's good advice. Looking back at those clips I can see that I need to think about simple, confident phrases in the spaces. Ta.

I think this is one of the things that it's very hard to really develop without playing live with other people.
Finding the space for each player to 'breathe' is a real skill, and it's completely unrelated to technical chops. Pre-covid I used to go to a jam night regularly and there were always some times when you knew the night was going to be a good one, because the people were the ones who understood how to allow space for everyone to get involved.
Other times there'd be people there who would basically play lead guitar for the entire duration of every song. All very technically and musically clever but much less fun for everyone else.

[Dynamic Mike]

For me, playing in a band was a huge pivot point....interestingly, leaving a band was an equally significant pivot point...just in the wrong direction. For me its about having a reason to really practice properly...as opposed to just noodling which I find myself doing just now. Keep pushing the boundaries! (I should follow my own advice! )
Stu.

That's pretty much my story until I bought a Boss JS10. I really bought it for the living room friendly form factor rather than a training device. However, whilst nothing is quite like playing with other people, this is pretty close. I like that you can switch keys and tempos, but mostly it's exposed me to playing in different genres which requires a bit of thought and stops me relying on the same old scales and patterns.

[forumuser918214]

There have been a lot - but I will mention 2 books that have both taken my playing up levels -

Mark Hanson -Solo Guitar Playing (fingerstyle acoustic steel string)
Barret Tagliarino - Chord-Tone Soloing (any kind of soloing)

Got thru both all the way (took some time) and definitely worth it!

Have lots of guitar books - these are in their own class.

[pfgpowell]

I'm pretty much as most others posting here: I've played guitar for most of my life - since I was about 13 - but was never any good and had an older brother who was better at everything, including playing guitar.

The thing is I have never NOT played: I always liked playing so it was never an effort to pick up a guitar and practice. But my 'practice' was rubbish, ill-disciplined, short 20 second bursts of chaos, a bit of this, a bit of that leading up to pretty much a whole load of very, very little.

I also use to think that there were some folk who were 'naturally gifted' and others - me, for example - who simply were not. I now know that to be nonsense.

Or more or less nonsense; there are some folk who ARE naturally gifted - gifted at putting in the work and effort, putting in the practice, patiently and slowly honing their skill, learning up relevant theory and so on. They make it seem effortless because they worked bloody hard at their playing.

Several turning points came for me: I DID slowly get slicker etc but I knew it was superficial. Yes, I could 'do this' and 'do that' but I was aware it was all show. One small turning point came for me when I discovered major seventh chords and how they work well with minor sevenths, minor sixths and ninths and so on. Play pretty much any sequence of those chords, but give it a 'shape' and a certain rhythm and you can bullshit your way to heaven. Except, still I knew it was nothing special.

Then a few years ago (my main love is jazz and those gorgeous nuanced chords you can get) I started taking proper lessons.

I learned a bit of theory, then a bit more, and although for a least a year everything my teacher, an enthusiastic Liverpudlian who seemed to answer your every question before you had even asked it - not always very helpful, that - everything he said was 99% gobbledegook: intervals, diatonics blah, blah - what the f*ck does he mean? But I stuck with it and slowly, very slowly it stuck with me.

My old faults are still about: I have the mind of a butterfly and consciously have to force myself to concentrate, but I now can.

One last thing: the more you learn, the more you realise who little you know. Oh, and the best advice is: practice SLOWLY until you are always getting it right and then speeding up doesn't lead to mistakes. Then there's the best advice of all: don't 'practice' those things you find easy. That's pointless. Practice those things you find HARD. That isn't pointless

[BJG145]

I've played guitar for most of my life - since I was about 13 - but was never any good...my 'practice' was rubbish, ill-disciplined, short 20 second bursts of chaos, a bit of this, a bit of that leading up to pretty much a whole load of very, very little.

This is exactly it. I've been messing around on guitar all my life, from a similar age, but never got any better because I didn't practice properly. I had trumpet lessons at school which I didn't enjoy at the time (Purcell anyone?), but at least some of it sank in.

Then there's the best advice of all: don't 'practice' those things you find easy. That's pointless. Practice those things you find HARD. That isn't pointless.

Very true. Easier said than done. As Tommy Emmanuel said in a recent interview, "You know, our fingers are like dogs - they go straight to the food bowl."

[rzzz]

Some of my experiences :
Early years playing gigs in bands attempting to make loathsome music sound great. Honed my skills like nothing else. And playing in 3 piece bands (guitar, bass, drums) - hard, busy, but chop building. And learning songs by ear - a very big one. Oh, and at one early stage I tuned down a semitone in order to learn the neck better - key of C means playing in C# etc.

rz

[merlyn]

Do you know the lick?


Learning the lick could be a turning point.

[ManFromGlass]

I’ve been trying the spider exercise. On YouTube there are tons of videos. Some say don’t do it more than 2 minutes a day.

[merlyn]

I had a look at the spider and I'm sure it's good for your technique but I didn't find it musical. A pattern has been established by playing four chromatic notes then going up a fourth, then that goes out the window crossing from the 3rd to 2nd strings. That sounds wrong to me. I would go up a fret when crossing from the 3rd to 2nd.

I do a few warmup exercises that are fret based but I would use a scale or something that I might actually play as the basis of exercises where possible.