How can I improve our Church's sound?

[Jeffrey Gian]

Hello everyone!
I'm new here and also a newbie when it comes to mixing and mastering. I've few question for y'all would real appreciate y'alls opinion.

So our church setup is very simple Mics and instruments are plugged straight into the mixer to PA speakers.

Our Rig;
Ocatapad- Bass gtr(active pickups)- Acst gtr - Keys - Mics -Soundcraft Ui24r(mixer) - PA speakers.

Theres are no experienced sound guy and so I'm learning and trying to improve our Sound. Recently i started learning about EQ and Dynamic and out of curiosity i searched up for mic preamps but while i was reading i came across line level and mic level(which i always overlooked about learning) and realised that two of our mics are plugged into line level and our instruments in mic level input. And i learnt that mic runs in lower voltages compared to instruments. The Ui24R has only 2 line inputs and I'm assuming it's the first two ports as they are the only ports that have 'Hi-z' input options.

1.What can we do to maximize our sound ?

2.We have no Di box or mic Preamps,which one would y'all recommend buying first and why?

3.What would be the problems as we have plugged our mic to line levels and instruments to line? (Yes I'm gonna rectify it but still i would like to hear yall input and experiences)

[James Perrett]

Hire an experienced sound engineer for a day or two to teach you how to run your sound system. We don't know your acoustics or how the musicians set themselves up so we could give you advice that is actually way off for your particular setup. Watching someone experienced, while having them explain what they are doing (and why) will give you a much better start.

[Drew Stephenson]

James' idea is definitely the best way but there are a couple of things we can clear up in the meantime.
Firstly, as well as mic- and line-level signals, you also have instrument-level (the output from an unamplified electric guitar or bass). These signal levels are in between line and mic level signals and it's these that require the Hi-Z (high impedance) inputs.
Your Ui24R has 20 inputs with mic pre-amps. The bottom row of XLR inputs are only designed for microphones.
The top row, with the 'combi' inputs can take either microphones (on XLR) or line-level input (on TRS). The first two of these can be set to be hi-z inputs for instruments.

[Jeffrey Gian]

Hire an experienced sound engineer for a day or two to teach you how to run your sound system. We don't know your acoustics or how the musicians set themselves up so we could give you advice that is actually way off for your particular setup. Watching someone experienced, while having them explain what they are doing (and why) will give you a much better start.

Yes i do agree, although do you suggest getting Di and or mic preamps?
Is mic preamp necessary as there are many mic level input in our mixer but only 2 line level so what can we do for our four instruments?

[Jeffrey Gian]

James' idea is definitely the best way but there are a couple of things we can clear up in the meantime.
Firstly, as well as mic- and line-level signals, you also have instrument-level (the output from an unamplified electric guitar or bass). These signal levels are in between line and mic level signals and it's these that require the Hi-Z (high impedance) inputs.
Your Ui24R has 20 inputs with mic pre-amps. The bottom row of XLR inputs are only designed for microphones.
The top row, with the 'combi' inputs can take either microphones (on XLR) or line-level input (on TRS). The first two of these can be set to be hi-z inputs for instruments.

That's great! thank for the info, Which instruments would you suggest for the first two ports also the bass guitar has active pickups(if thats a concern)?

[Kwackman]

Hire an experienced sound engineer for a day or two to teach you how to run your sound system. ....Watching someone experienced, while having them explain what they are doing (and why) will give you a much better start.

This is the most cost effective and sensible solution.
Try local PA Hire companies for recommendations perhaps?
Good luck!

[James Perrett]

Yes i do agree, although do you suggest getting Di and or mic preamps?
Is mic preamp necessary as there are many mic level input in our mixer but only 2 line level so what can we do for our four instruments?

There is no need to buy mic preamps if you have a mixer with mic inputs - anyone who suggests otherwise is simply taking advantage of your inexperience. From the picture that I'e seen, the UI24 uses combined XLR/jack connectors so you have at least 10 line inputs.

This shows that it is essential that you stop trying to do this on your own and engage someone who knows what they are doing - they'll save you wasting your money on things you don't need.

[Mike Stranks]

The advice so far is spot on.

Find an experienced sound person who can help you. Maybe someone in another church in your area could help you.

... and as a sound-guy who specialised in church systems I'd be happy to help... just send the plane fare and a commitment to hotel and food expenses and I'll be on the first available plane!

Seriously; don't ask a shop/supplier to help you... I've seen too many churches taken in by unscrupulous sales people who've sold gear that isn't needed, gear of a far higher spec than is needed and given rubbish advice into the bargain.

[Jeffrey Gian]

Thank you all for your inputs I've found the community really helpful we might hire local sound guy although that's not going happen anytime soon due to lockdown.
Last question;
So i should connect the bass with active pickups and acoustic guitar to first-two input of the mixer and enable Hi-z, right?
Thanks again everyone!

[shufflebeat]

Small addition:

If your acoustic guitar has a preamp (if it needs a battery) then hi/low impedance is not a major issue and it could be plugged into any jack inputs on the mixer without problems, as can the bass. I would still use a DI* for both.

f it doesn't (if it has a passive pickup) then chances are it would benefit considerably with a proper hi impedance jack input.

*There are other gadgets and gizmos that can greatly improve guitar/bass in place of a DI but get your basic system sorted first.

[Jeffrey Gian]

Small addition:

If your acoustic guitar has a preamp (if it needs a battery) then hi/low impedance is not a major issue and it could be plugged into any jack inputs on the mixer without problems, as can the bass. I would still use a DI* for both.

f it doesn't (if it has a passive pickup) then chances are it would benefit considerably with a proper hi impedance jack input.

*There are other gadgets and gizmos that can greatly improve guitar/bass in place of a DI but get your basic system sorted first.

So I'm gonna guess passive DI for bass and keys but with stereo outs for keys right? And active Di for acoustic as some say.
And can you name the equipment's that'd help acoustic and bass guitar, actually I'm the bassist of my church but also i also take care of the audio aspect of our church as there is no tech guy.

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm going to disagree slightly here. Before spending any money I'd try with what you've got.
Channels 1 and 2 on the Soundcraft are designed for instruments to be plugged straight in so start with that. Keyboards into any of the other line input pairs.
Start with the instrument levels at minimum though, particularly with the bass.
If you find that you're getting ground loops or other issues then it's worth looking at a DI or two, but it shouldn't be necessary from the off.

[The Elf]

The very worst thing you can do at this point is spend money. You risk having extra hardware in the chain that may be inappropriate and confuse matters further. Even worse, you will be convinced that you need to keep that extra hardware in there because you've spent money on it, yet it may be the one thing that's causing the problem.

Take a deep breath, read what the guys above have said (they know their stuff), take things one step at a time and keep it as simple as you possibly can - one connection at a time. Do all your testing on your own (or with one assistant, if you really must) and lock the doors until you've finished!

[Jeffrey Gian]

I'm going to disagree slightly here. Before spending any money I'd try with what you've got.
Channels 1 and 2 on the Soundcraft are designed for instruments to be plugged straight in so start with that. Keyboards into any of the other line input pairs.
Start with the instrument levels at minimum though, particularly with the bass.
If you find that you're getting ground loops or other issues then it's worth looking at a DI or two, but it shouldn't be necessary from the off.

So you mean plugging both bass and acoustic to Channel 1 and 2 that'd be line level as theres no instrument level in Ui the other option is to turn on Hi-z which according to shufflebeat isnt a major problem. So you suggest with and without is it?

[shufflebeat]

I'm going to disagree slightly here. Before spending any money I'd try with what you've got.
Channels 1 and 2 on the Soundcraft are designed for instruments to be plugged straight in so start with that. Keyboards into any of the other line input pairs.
Start with the instrument levels at minimum though, particularly with the bass.
If you find that you're getting ground loops or other issues then it's worth looking at a DI or two, but it shouldn't be necessary from the off.

So you mean plugging both bass and acoustic to Channel 1 and 2 that'd be line level as theres no instrument level in Ui the other option is to turn on Hi-z which according to shufflebeat isnt a major problem. So you suggest with and without is it?

I'd agree with Drew here.

If your acoustic guitar has a preamp (if it needs a battery) then hi/low impedance is not a major issue and it could be plugged into any jack inputs on the mixer without problems, as can the bass.

The mixer inputs you have are perfectly serviceable. There are only two reasons I can think of where this would be a problem:

1) You are a long distance from the mixer, for a variety of reasons balanced XLR leads (hence DIs) are better suited to long runs,
2) You have a passive pickup on your acoustic guitar which might not like the mixer input and would be better served by a high impedance input close by.

If your guitar has a preamp installed (or a pedal preamp) then you can happily plug that into your mixer via a TS jack (guitar lead), also in this case active/passive DI will make little difference to the outcome.

[shufflebeat]

Separate point - do you have anything to gain by having keys in stereo? There are often good reasons to do so if you're making use of the facility but "just because I can" isn't always the best justification.

I'm getting a mild sense that you are picking up on what you wanted to hear in order to confirm your existing thoughts. This is perfectly normal, I do it myself, but it can be an expensive habit.

[The Elf]

I'd keep the keys in stereo. Don't assume that by only plugging one side in the keyboard will deliver a mono signal - it may just be one half of the output. It's adding a potential problem you don't need right now.

[Drew Stephenson]

Yep, I'd put the bass in CH1, the acoustic in CH2 (both set to HiZ), the keyboard in 3&4, and then the mics in the subsequent channels.
Go through one channel at a time. Start with all the levels down at minimum on the mixer. With the bass in particular you might want to start with that at about half way, but with the other instruments have them at their normal output level.
I'm not familiar with the control app for the soundcraft but the principle for any mixer is the same, there are two levels you need to set for each instrument. The level coming in and the level going out. Start with the input. You'll need to refer to the manual but I think it's on the 'Gain' screen. Set your gain for each instrument so that when you're playing your loudest the clip indicator isn't coming on. Frankly I'd then back it down another few dB after that anyway to give yourself some headroom.
Once you've done this, you've got your inputs coming into the mixer at the right level.
Then you can move to the mix screen and use the faders there to determine the right balance for the outputs.
But make sure you do it in the right order, input levels first (with plenty of headroom), then output levels.
Have a good long sit down with the manual, you've got a very capable and very flexible mixer there, but the swing side is that there's quite a bit to learn.

[shufflebeat]

I'd keep the keys in stereo. Don't assume that by only plugging one side in the keyboard will deliver a mono signal - it may just be one half of the output. It's adding a potential problem you don't need right now.

That would be a good reason to work in stereo of course if it were the case.

[Jeffrey Gian]

I'm going to disagree slightly here. Before spending any money I'd try with what you've got.
Channels 1 and 2 on the Soundcraft are designed for instruments to be plugged straight in so start with that. Keyboards into any of the other line input pairs.
Start with the instrument levels at minimum though, particularly with the bass.
If you find that you're getting ground loops or other issues then it's worth looking at a DI or two, but it shouldn't be necessary from the off.

So you mean plugging both bass and acoustic to Channel 1 and 2 that'd be line level as theres no instrument level in Ui the other option is to turn on Hi-z which according to shufflebeat isnt a major problem. So you suggest with and without is it?

I'd agree with Drew here.

If your acoustic guitar has a preamp (if it needs a battery) then hi/low impedance is not a major issue and it could be plugged into any jack inputs on the mixer without problems, as can the bass.

The mixer inputs you have are perfectly serviceable. There are only two reasons I can think of where this would be a problem:

1) You are a long distance from the mixer, for a variety of reasons balanced XLR leads (hence DIs) are better suited to long runs,
2) You have a passive pickup on your acoustic guitar which might not like the mixer input and would be better served by a high impedance input close by.

If your guitar has a preamp installed (or a pedal preamp) then you can happily plug that into your mixer via a TS jack (guitar lead), also in this case active/passive DI will make little difference to the outcome.

Understood!!! Thanks for elaborating it:)