Tips for getting a clean sound on vocal recordings?

[Hippie162]

Hi All, me again

I have written and recorded my second track using Cubase Artist 9.5, MIDI track with Vocals.

I have just changed my set up to use an audio interface and changed my mic to a dynamic condensor in a bid to try and reduce hiss / noise on recordings. To a certain extent, it is better than the USB mic I was using last time BUT the song has quite softly performed vocals and as such I needed to boost the pre/gain and the gain on the midas pre amp to get a decent level.. I like the vocal but the track just sounds very "demo" as I can hear that hiss kick in each time the vocal track comes in, it isn't "terrible" but it's there..

I have recorded the vocals many many many times with the same outcome, just a duvet behind me in the bedroom. So this is what I have to work with.. My hope is that someone can give me some tips to reduce the level of that noise maybe using EQ / high pass / gate.. I almost reached for the refir last night but shut my laptop down and told myself off as the result last time was not good

[The Elf]

Good vocal recordings don't come from the processing you do afterwards. They come from recording it properly in the first place. As soon as anyone starts talking about gates and other such sticking plasters it's clear that the basic recording is not up to scratch. You shouldn't need any of that stuff.

You're not giving us much to go on. Tell us what make/model of mic (mic's can be dynamic or condensor - not both) and audio interface you are using, how you have them connected, and how you are approaching the recording from a physical point of view - distance from mic, level you are recording at, bit-depth/sample rate you are choosing...

And maybe an audio example for us to hear.

All of this will help us to help you.

[Hippie162]

Hi Elf,

I am using an AKG D5 Mic, going through a basic Behringer UMC22 interface with a midas pre amp, using ASIO4ALL driver in Cubase (on laptop). the interface connects to the laptop via USB and the mic has a 3 point pin into the interface.

I have been recording the vocals very close to the mic, right up to the pop shield approx 5cm from the mic. TBH I find this mic a little boomy but then recording so close wouldn't help, I couldn't get a great level singing softly further back without more hiss. I tried not to have the gain too high but found a decent level with the pre-amp at 2 o clock and the pre-gain set to about +13db. Too much?

Where should my master fader be sitting in a perfect world to give headroom for mastering? I have been trying to achieve about -18db but this mix is currently sitting higher, would it help to lower the levels on the instrument tracks in order to lower the levels on the vocal to reduce that hiss?

[Hugh Robjohns]

EDIT: Oops! Sorry... got distracted after starting a reply and the Elf beat me to it!

...and changed my mic to a dynamic condensor...

Just for clarity... is it a dynamic (moving coil or ribbon) mic, or a condensor (capacitor or electret) mic?

While there are mics that contain both forms, most are dual-element kick-drum mics rather than vocal mics!

So what is the specific mic model?

I can hear that hiss kick in each time the vocal track comes in, it isn't "terrible" but it's there.

'Hiss' can be electronic or acoustic, and to improve matters it's necessary to identify the exact source. It's not unusual for people to assume the problem is electronic noise but find out it's actually noise from the room itself -- our ears and brain are very good at filtering out ambient noise, so we often don't realise it's there!

Electronic noise comes from mics and preamps, and the first way to minimise that is to establish a good gain structure. Some preamps are significantly noisier than others, too, so it would help to know what model of Midas preamp you're using.

[Drew Stephenson]

Sounds like there may be some confusion here...

I am using an AKG D5 Mic, going through a basic Behringer UMC22 interface with a midas pre amp, using ASIO4ALL driver in Cubase (on laptop). the interface connects to the laptop via USB and the mic has a 3 point pin into the interface.

When you say a midas pre amp, do you mean a separate unit or the preamp included in the interface?

I have been recording the vocals very close to the mic, right up to the pop shield approx 5cm from the mic. TBH I find this mic a little boomy but then recording so close wouldn't help, I couldn't get a great level singing softly further back without more hiss. I tried not to have the gain too high but found a decent level with the pre-amp at 2 o clock and the pre-gain set to about +13db. Too much?

The D5 is primarily designed as a stage microphone, it's expected to be used up close and has a deliberately non-flat response in order to cut through over a band/backing track. But they're good little mics and you should still be able to get a decent sound out of one providing you take a few things into account.
Firstly, because it's a dynamic and designed to be use up close, it will sound thin and quiet if you use it too far away. But because it's a cardiod pattern microphone, when you get up close you'll experience a more bass heavy sound (proximity effect). You can manage this with EQ post recording, don't worry about it. Try the mic around 3-6 inches from your mouth and see how that sounds to start with.
In terms of levels, when recording you want the general level to be bumbling around -18dB with peaks up to -12dB ish. This gives you plenty of headroom for unexpectedly loud bits and subsequent processing.

Where should my master fader be sitting in a perfect world to give headroom for mastering? I have been trying to achieve about -18db but this mix is currently sitting higher, would it help to lower the levels on the instrument tracks in order to lower the levels on the vocal to reduce that hiss?

Leave the master fader alone for now.
Good gain structuring comes before then.
If you record all your tracks around that -18 level then when you sum them together your master bus should still have some headroom there to allow for mastering. -18dB for the master channel is lower than I'd expect on one of my mixes. I'd generally expect that to be hovering around the -10dB mark.
But the key thing is to keep an eye on those levels all the way through the process, adding a bit of boost in an EQ, or a bit compression with make-up gain, or a bit of saturation (etc. etc. etc.) can all raise those levels. So use the output function on the plugin (if it has one) or add a gain plugin in between to make sure that those levels aren't creeping up with each bit of processing.

As suggested above, a sample recording would really help, you can host things on soundcloud as a private file and then share the restricted link here.

[Hippie162]

Wow what an amazing response thank you

To answer a few bits:

The Midas preamp is built into the unit, it is only a cheap little thing hence the ASIO4ALL.. so I adjusted the level of gain on that preamp prior to changing the pre-gain in Cubase on the channel, assume that would be the right way?

The mic is picking up a decent sound of vocals, it's just part of the track is piano backing only and the noise is noticable in these parts. Fading in the part is helping a little but I can still tell it is there.

I have been aiming for -18db recording levels so that is good to hear. could I ask another thing.. so would you record at that level and then adjust pre-gain to achieve -10db prior to mastering? I ask as I was working on the principle of achieving -18db prior to mastering and as such some of my instrument tracks needed to sit at almost -24db and it seemed excessive!

[Hippie162]

Also to add.. I am planning on posting a SC link to you all anyway prior to releasing this one! As you are the sound gurus

[Hugh Robjohns]

I suspect you might get better results if you set the Cubase 'pre gain' to zero, and increase the gain on the interface preamp. Aim to have the vocal signal peaking to around -10 or even -6dBFS when it gets into Cubase.

As Drew says, the D5 is a stage mic, so you need to work it quite close -- no more than 2-3 inches away, and ideally closer!

[Drew Stephenson]

The Midas preamp is built into the unit, it is only a cheap little thing hence the ASIO4ALL.. so I adjusted the level of gain on that preamp prior to changing the pre-gain in Cubase on the channel, assume that would be the right way?

It's important at this point to keep your recording and mixing processes separate. You shouldn't need to adjust the level of the gain in cubase at all. Set that to unity and then use the pre-amp gain on the front of the unit. Don't worry if that means you need to right round almost to the maximum; it's quite normal to have 'gain bunching' (where most of the gain is in a limited amount of the dial) on budget interfaces.

The mic is picking up a decent sound of vocals, it's just part of the track is piano backing only and the noise is noticable in these parts. Fading in the part is helping a little but I can still tell it is there.

It's normal to cut out the non-performance parts of a vocal recording when you're mixing. The important thing is not to cut too closely. Leave the breaths before phrases in, and don't cut too quickly at the end of a phrase as there are frequently little magical moments of delivery right at the end.
Expect to spend a fair bit of time automating your vocal level towards the end of your mix process to get the most from it.

I have been aiming for -18db recording levels so that is good to hear. could I ask another thing.. so would you record at that level and then adjust pre-gain to achieve -10db prior to mastering? I ask as I was working on the principle of achieving -18db prior to mastering and as such some of my instrument tracks needed to sit at almost -24db and it seemed excessive!

The -18dB guideline is a guideline for individual tracks when recording, not for a fully mixed master bus. If you add half a dozen individual tracks at -18dB together, you'll find your master track is naturally sitting at a sensible level for mastering.
I'll leave it to one of the mastering engineers on the forum to confirm, but generally mastering engineers ask for 3-6dB of headroom in my (limited) experience.

[Drew Stephenson]

As Drew says, the D5 is a stage mic, so you need to work it quite close -- no more than 2-3 inches away, and ideally closer!

In the event that anything I write is corrected by Hugh (or anyone else really), listen to them not me!

[The Elf]

The D5 is not the most appropriate mic for recording an exposed vocal, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get something usable, as the others have said above.

Get all Cubase faders at unity and leave that gain control well alone! I suspect you're digitally boosting your incoming signal and under-driving the analogue mic input as a result (think of it as the difference between optical zooming with a camera lens and digital cropping, if that helps). The only time you should be going anywhere near a Cubase gain control is to trim a signal *after* recording. Set gain to zero and leave it well alone during recording!

[Hippie162]

The D5 is not the most appropriate mic for recording an exposed vocal, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get something usable, as the others have said above.

Get all Cubase faders at unity and leave that gain control well alone! I suspect you're digitally boosting your incoming signal and under-driving the analogue mic input as a result. The only time you should be going anywhere near a Cubase gain control is to trim a signal *after* recording. Set gain to zero and leave it well alone during recording!

This is what I have been doing.. I was reading all about "gain staging" and assuming that it is done re recording So..

Right. I am going to re-record these vocals and try and get it right at the source, using your tips!

[The Elf]

Just don't go running away with the idea that you're going to get crisp, ultra-clean, quietly delivered vocals with that gear. I also have a D5 and I'd perhaps choose it for a rock vocal (I mostly use mine for drums), but it's not the tool for an 'Enya-esque' half-whispered performance.

[Hippie162]

Just don't go running away with the idea that you're going to get crisp, ultra-clean, quietly delivered vocals with that gear. I also have a D5 and I'd perhaps choose it for a rock vocal (I mostly use mine for drums), but it's not the tool for an 'Enya-esque' half-whispered performance.

Yes true.. I think I only really need to re-record my first verse which is accompanied by piano only as once the rest of the track kicks in you can't hear any noise.. Yes I promise to be realistic Elf

One day when I actually have money in my account after the bills come out I will actually upgrade my equipment lol

[The Elf]

We all do the best with what we can afford. It's no criticism of you; I just wanted you to have realistic expectations.

[Hippie162]

We all do the best with what we can afford. It's no criticism of you; I just wanted you to have realistic expectations.

Yes of course I value your help too

[Hippie162]

Morning All,

Just an update as I received so much help from you all:

So on Saturday I unplugged the whole lot, moved it all downstairs, coated a corner of the room in duvets and blankets and went about setting this sorted.

The issue seemed to be two things, the main one.. the Audio driver in my Cubase was still set to "Generic Low latency audio driver" - This was really only because I had big issues setting up this cheap interface and couldn't get Cubase to recognise that ASIO4ALL was installed. Then on Saturday like magic there it was sitting in the audio driver dropdown like a beacon of hope so of course I re-set the driver to this, reconfigured the busses, inputs and outputs and the hum was gone. ALSO the latency was much improved.

I still had some "hiss" coming through and as Elf said set my pre-gain in my DAW to unity and upped the gain on the preamp on the interface, this improved things again but there was still faint noise.

I moved the laptop as far away as my mic cable would allow, untangled all the wires that were crossed over sat in the corner and recorded the best quality audio I have yet to achieve, I think the D5 cuts out noise in front of the singer which would help compared to my old mic but there was definately laptop noise in there...and I am so pleased and can't wait to start editing and mixing it now.

Thank you guys for all your help.

[Drew Stephenson]

[The Elf]

By asking the questions and acting on the answers you have made a good start. best of luck.

[Martin Walker]

Excellent news - look forward to hearing some more audio once you get it edited and mixed!

Martin

[Hippie162]

Excellent news - look forward to hearing some more audio once you get it edited and mixed!

Martin

Thanks! If anyone would like to offer advice the I have uploaded a rough mix here https://soundcloud.com/user-410433233-5 ... nRFJXM5tlC

I did post a thread asking for advice but think it has been buried in all the many threads out there so no interest. I am struggling to get the sound I want from this track, I want a "big" "lush" sound but currently it sounds busy and muddy.. even a bit thin in places.

Again I have a lot of vocal tracks in there, I want a choir-esque sound from the backing vocals (think Florence and the machine) if anyone has any advice?

References for the track were John Lennon's "Imagine", Adele's "remedy" and Florence Welches "Grace". To give an idea of what I'm looking for.

Any advice on getting those claps sounding better would be so great too as they sound naff!

[The Elf]

I can hear that you are a long way from your references. You need to go back to your references and listen very carefully to the balance, tone and ambience, then begin making mix decisions to go from what you have to what you want to hear. Being realistic it's near-impossible to teach someone to mix by text over a forum. As long as you know your tools well it really is just about application. From what I can hear most of the basics are there - though I find that drum pattern questionable, I will admit.

First of all, there's also quite a bit of nip and tuck tuning work needed on the vocals - get that right first, and some of those harmonies will start to go from wobbly to lush.

[Hippie162]

I can hear that you are a long way from your references. You need to go back to your references and listen very carefully to the balance, tone and ambience, then begin making mix decisions to go from what you have to what you want to hear. Being realistic it's near-impossible to teach someone to mix by text over a forum. As long as you know your tools well it really is just about application. From what I can hear most of the basics are there - though I find that drum pattern questionable, I will admit.

First of all, there's also quite a bit of nip and tuck tuning work needed on the vocals - get that right first, and some of those harmonies will start to go from wobbly to lush.

Yes agreed.. long way off.

I think the drums.. yes, they need to be simpler especially on that second verse, perhaps I need to start from scratch with them, but I will have a good think.

Can I ask you about nip and tuck tuning? All my previous experience in music was instrumental only hence how much I am struggling with vocals. Can you suggest a tool to use to get them right in Cubase? I can maybe look at you tube tutorials if I know where to start, but I see a "pitch correct" and and Octaver in Cubase and don't really like either.

[The Elf]

The tool you need is Vari-Audio, but don’t just go at it expecting to throw it on and all will be well. You need to spend time adjusting the segments and tuning curve to make it invisible. I think the mag did a couple of tutorials, so try a search.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk