New Korg Legacy instruments

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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by Tomás Mulcahy »

Thanks for doing that Eddie, very useful. It's a shame they didn't get the modulation or the effects (especially reverb) to match. The flute patch sounds quite silly on the VST, it's awesome on the hardware. It sounds just like that loaded in to my Trinity Rack MOSS (there's a Korg forum with the patches translated). Another reason to keep the hardware for another while yet. Maybe they need to get the original programmers on board such as Drew Schlesinger and Wiff. Although Drew gave it the thumbs up, he likes the UI and how clear the extensive modulation is. That's a very big plus over the Trinity Rack.
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by BJG145 »

Tomás Mulcahy wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:41 pm It's a shame they didn't get the modulation or the effects (especially reverb) to match. The flute patch sounds quite silly on the VST, it's awesome on the hardware.

Is that the "Airworks" patch...? I just tried downloading the demo to see what it would sound like with breath pressure on the EWI. I didn't get close though.

https://soundcloud.com/qchord/airworks/s-NmF6yugEryR

Image

You'll see that the UI has three wheels at the lower left. "Wheel 2" seems to control vibrato, and I think the expression data is probably driving that on the demo above. I reckon breath pressure should be set to drive "Wheel 3" instead. With that, I can hear a slight boost in the upper frequencies, but nothing like the octave switching in the hardware version. :thumbdown:
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by Tomás Mulcahy »

Did you do that on the VST? That's certainly an improvement. The over-blowing effect is one of the nicest things about that model.
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by Eddy Deegan »

When I did it I was using aftertouch as the modulation source as that's the way it is on the SOLO-TRI. It does seem slightly odd to me that they'd implement that patch on the VST so much less usefully but it may well be possible to reprogram it. Maybe it was like that on the Prophecy hardware as well but I've no idea as I never owned one.

I avoided use of controllers other than pitchbend and aftertouch as the mapping from the Trinity physical joystick and ribbon is rather different to the mappings on the virtual Prophecy.
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by forumuser909788 »

Hi,
A note to Eddy, if you haven't found it yet, there is a hold function in the program voice settings in the FX section.

Just wondered if anyone is having problems with the log (wheel 3). I am controlling the software with a hardware Prophecy and it all works fine in standalone mode. When I use it in Reason the log only responds when I move it away from me, not when I move it towards me and the ribbon doesn't work. It all works with mouse control.

I spent a couple of hours trying to sort it out and failed. I don't know if it's an issue with the VST or Reason. I'm a hardened midi user and all of the transmit / receive settings match.

If anyone is having the same issue in another DAW then I shall get in touch with Korg about it. I have already asked them if there is going to be any way of transferring sounds from the software into the hardware as that seems such an obvious omission.

If anyone out there is controlling the VST with a hardware Prof then I would love to hear if you have had a similar problem.
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by Eddy Deegan »

forumuser909788 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:15 pm A note to Eddy, if you haven't found it yet, there is a hold function in the program voice settings in the FX section.

So there is! I missed that. Thank you, and nice first post :wave:

forumuser909788 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:15 pm If anyone out there is controlling the VST with a hardware Prof then I would love to hear if you have had a similar problem.

I was controlling it with the joystick on my Trinity which is spring-loaded to the centre point. Pushing the joystick generates CC#1 (normal modulation wheel) and pulling it generates CC#2 (breath controller).

I haven't used the VST in Reason, only in Studio One.

By default, CC#1 maps inversely to negative Y values on wheel 3 in the VST (ie: as you increase the CC values, wheel 3 moves 'down' from centre). I don't know what CC is required to move wheel 3 up though.

You can modify the MIDI controller mappings in the VST by accessing the global settings (via the little hamburger icon to the right of the preset name):
ProphecyVST.JPG
Through this I was able to assign a controller but this maps to the full range of movement on wheel 3 and you need a centre-sprung controller if you want to maintain the central default position of wheel 3 (if that makes sense). Also, assuming you're using a 7-bit controller then wheel 3 will most likely move in steps of 2 so you'll lose some of the range of expression (which may audible in certain situations).

As wheel 3 has a Y range from -127 to +127 I agree it's strange that there aren't two CCs configurable for it, one for positive and one for negative, especially as it seems likely that the default mapping is for two controllers.
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by forumuser909788 »

Thanks for the info Eddy. I got a reply from Korg, saying that they have no plans to make sounds backwards compatible with the hardware.

I replied mentioning this wheel 3 problem. It just seems weird that you can define 2 controllers in the Arp page but only 1 in the global settings.

Reason can be a bit weird when it comes to controllers anyway. I shall post when I get a reply from Korg.
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by BJG145 »

For info, wheel 3 seemed to be driven by breath pressure on the EWI quite naturally.
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by BJG145 »

OK, so...just taking another look at this. Breath pressure on the EWI drives wheel 3 by default, moving from centre upwards, and I'm pretty sure this is the "overblowing" mechanism, though even with the wheel moving fully upwards the overblowing sounds nothing like the hardware on "Airworks". It's very subtle. (Assuming that the hardware patch was "Airworks".)

Here's the readout from MidiOx showing what the EWI is sending when I vary breath pressure.

Image

*edit*

Ignore the aftertouch, I've turned that off now, and the Breath CC moves wheel 3 on everything.

(If the strange vibrato patch was Airworks, and aftertouch is driving wheel 2, I'd be interested to hear the result if it could be remapped to drive wheel 3 upwards instead.)
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by Eddy Deegan »

Interesting; the B0 02 (Breath) CC messages were what I saw coming from the Trinity as well but they didn't move wheel 3 in the VST in Studio One.

I'll have another poke around at it later tonight or tomorrow.

Oh, yes, it was Airworks by the way.
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by forumuser909788 »

Hi.

Having spent ages trying to figure out why Airworks didn't match I have realised that the pitch modulation is completely wrong on both the Reed and Brass models.

Applying any pitch mod just sounds like a standard oscillator, rather than introducing all of the harmonic changes of overblowing etc that you get on the hardware.

I also did loads of tests on the controllers, making sure that it wasn't me or Reason at fault. I can't get the log Dir - to work properly in Reason, although it works fine as a standalone.

I definitely think that Korg have messed up on the implementation of the log, hence only one Wheel 3 controller in the Global page. I let them know earlier. I shall get back in touch with my thoughts on the pitch mod and post when I hear something.

This would explain why some of my more industrial sounds, based on the physical models, are just silent in the software. I haven't checked the plucked string model yet. Time for my nap!
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Re: New Korg Legacy instruments

Post by forumuser909788 »

Hi, just in case anyone is still waiting with bated breath, I haven't forgotten about this. The guy from Korg forwarded this to their software developers 2 and a half months ago and said that he would be in touch when he heard anything.

I chased recently but it's all gone quiet over there.

I have also had a few hardware exception errors when trying to route modulators. This happens in Reason but not in the standalone version. Hopefully they will be keen to sort this out as they offer Reason+ in their software bundle.

Anyway, I thought that I would just update anyone who, like me, really wants this software working properly. Ciao.
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