This thread is starting to sound like the great British Radio Bakeoff.
As soon as CDs came along, I gave up on tape as a lost cause.
However, putting on my Advocatus Diaboli hat, I also have some CDs with mysterious digital distortion on them: for example, the 5 vol. complete Erik Satie piano works on EMI, played by Aldo Ciccolini.
He recorded the complete piano works twice: once in the 60s (ADD), and then again in the 80s (DDD).
Now, guess which recordings have the digital distortion?
Yep! It's the later versions.
I can thoroughly recommend the 60s box set, however, if you can find it.
As Sylvian sang, it's full of the most poignant "désespoir agréable".
Getting back to Radio 3, it would be interesting to know which recordings of these works they recommend in Building a Library.
Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
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Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
I guess the problem with any sort of sealant to lock out moisture re entry would be that it would have a thickness resulting in a minute separation of the oxide from intimate contact with the head face
I don’t think it was a sealant, it was there to change the chemical nature of the binder so that it didn’t hydrolise.
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
He recorded the complete piano works twice: once in the 60s (ADD), and then again in the 80s (DDD).
Now, guess which recordings have the digital distortion?
For a 60s recording it would have to be AAD.
Have you ripped the 80s recording into your computer to see the waveforms? It just might be the CD player distorting if the mastering took the peaks to extremely close to 0dbFS.
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
That doesn't sound right. The first letter describes the original recording format, the second is the mixing format, and the last is the mastering format.
A recording made in the 60s must have been AAD, not ADD...
Now, guess which recordings have the digital distortion?
It could be either, of course, and for lots of reasons -- all inexcusable, naturally -- but I'm guessing you're not a fan of the later recordings.
- Hugh Robjohns
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In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
MOF wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:43 pmI guess the problem with any sort of sealant to lock out moisture re entry would be that it would have a thickness resulting in a minute separation of the oxide from intimate contact with the head face
I don’t think it was a sealant, it was there to change the chemical nature of the binder so that it didn’t hydrolise.
I'd be interesting to know more then.
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- Tim Gillett
Frequent Poster (Level2) - Posts: 2625 Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:00 am Location: Perth, Western Australia
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
I'd be interesting to know more then.
It was some years ago Tim, I’d have to trawl through all my paper copies. Maybe someone at SOS remembers who the author was.
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
Possibly Roger Nichols's archiving work through Digital Atomics? They used to refer to using a vacuum dessication process.
It was done at a couple of places I worked too (in the UK) and I vaguely remember mentioning it on the forums a very long time ago but I've never written for SOS whereas Roger did.
It was done at a couple of places I worked too (in the UK) and I vaguely remember mentioning it on the forums a very long time ago but I've never written for SOS whereas Roger did.
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- forumuser840717
Regular - Posts: 447 Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:20 pm
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
Hugh Robjohns wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:29 pm That doesn't sound right. The first letter describes the original recording format, the second is the mixing format, and the last is the mastering format.
A recording made in the 60s must have been AAD, not ADD...
It says the recordings were made between 1966-1971, then "digital transfers and mixing - 1991".
Does that make it AAD or ADD?
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
MOF wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:52 pmHe recorded the complete piano works twice: once in the 60s (ADD), and then again in the 80s (DDD).
Now, guess which recordings have the digital distortion?
For a 60s recording it would have to be AAD.
Have you ripped the 80s recording into your computer to see the waveforms? It just might be the CD player distorting if the mastering took the peaks to extremely close to 0dbFS.
It could be ADD if the original analogue recording were remixed/re-edited digitally. In classical world, the majority of sessions were mixed to stereo live, on the sessions, so the second letter commonly refers to the post production stage (normally just editing and perhaps a little mastering) rather than mixing in the more familiar pop sense of tracking-mixing-mastering.
I've done work re-editing/re-mastering old recordings from analogue tapes where the end result was identified as ADD even though the original release was AAA and happened before I was born!
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- forumuser840717
Regular - Posts: 447 Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:20 pm
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
I've done work re-editing/re-mastering old recordings from analogue tapes where the end result was identified as ADD even though the original release was AAA and happened before I was born!
Well according to this article you're breaking the trades description act. Apart from a short gap 1991-5 it's as Hugh mentioned above - recording, mixing and mastered format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARS_code
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
Thanks forumuser840717, it was Roger Nichols July 2006 article
As everyone knows by now, analogue tape suffers from 'sticky shed syndrome'. The tape companies suggested baking the tapes to enable playback temporarily. In 1992 I started using a vacuum process to recover these tapes; I enlisted one of the original scientists who developed Mylar and the oxide binders for DuPont to help develop it. It works perfectly and turns out to be permanent. Tapes processed in 1992 still play back perfectly today, without the increase in distortion as a result of baking.
Re: Radio 3: pre-echo on Liszt loud piano parts
- Hugh Robjohns
Moderator -
Posts: 38834 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Contact:
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...