String gauge calculator

[shufflebeat]

I've been exploring some online string gauge calculators and this one seems to be the most suitable for my needs. It's aimed at uke players but the scale length is adjustable and there's a choice of string material.

https://ukulele.de/RISAdata/StringGauge.html

I realise there's an element of sorcery in reliable calculating to taste but this seems to chime with my own experience with guitar and mandola.

I'd be very interested to hear how suggested results line up with the expectations of others and would also like to hear of any similar calculators that have proved valuable.

Not expecting miracles but ball park figures are helpful.

I've also looked at:

https://www.evertune.com/resources/stri ... ulator.php

And

https://stringtensioncalculator.com/

...but found them less useful for several reasons.

[Wonks]

What are you ultimately trying to achieve?

Different manufacturers’ wound strings have different core and winding diameters and steel formulations which will all affect the tension at pitch. They won’t be wildly different, but if you want to match string tensions as closely as possible, then you really need to use manufacturers’ figures.

[shufflebeat]

What are you ultimately trying to achieve?

An important question. I'm trying to develop a mental benchmark for judging what's appropriate in a given situation and for comparing types and brands, ultimately not the numbers but I need to have some appreciation of the numbers in order to develop some understanding. At.the minute I'm reinventing the wheel every time I put strings on the mandola which has a scale of 22" and there's not much guidance on that.

Different manufacturers’ wound strings have different core and winding diameters and steel formulations which will all affect the tension at pitch. They won’t be wildly different, but if you want to match string tensions as closely as possible, then you really need to use manufacturers’ figures.

I've struggled to find anything apart from" our strings are.best because...", any direction you can point me in would be appreciated.

[Wonks]

D’Addario certainly have figures for all their strings, so I’d start with those.

[Funkyflash5]

Rotosound have recently started making theirs available
https://www.rotosound.com/tension-comparison-chart/

[Wonks]

I'd be very interested to hear how suggested results line up with the expectations of others and would also like to hear of any similar calculators that have proved valuable.

As I don't know of any standard stringed instrument with string tension measurement gauges built-in, I'm still not quite sure how you'd expect to use the information.

Thinner strings require less tension than thicker strings for a given pitch, but how the string feels under the fingers is also a function of the action and fret height, and how far you have to press the string down to fret a note. A set of 0.011"s on a guitar with a really low action can feel a lot easier to fret than a set of 0.009"s on a guitar with a high action. String bending from a fretted position will be easier with the thinner strings, but you aren't normally going to bend notes on a mandola.

[Wonks]

Or is it that the 22" scale puts it in the 'octave mandolin' area rather than the 'mandola' area for US-made strings (which will typically be for a 17" scale instrument)?

And what tuning do you use?

D'Addario strings for an Octave Mandolin

https://www.daddario.com/products/guita ... ium-12-46/

(Use the 'learn more' side bar to get the string tension).

[BigRedX]

The problem with all string gauge calculators is that they only take tension, tuning and scale-length into consideration and then give you a gauge based on whatever manufacturer's calculator you are using.

Unfortunately they can't take into account compliance which is equally important as the other factors, but is impossible to calculate, because it changes due to both string and instrument construction. This is why you can only use the calculators to get close to the correct gauges for the make and type of string they are designed for. After that you will have to do some trial and error with strings actually fitted to the instrument in question unit you get the right feel and sound. Also you will need to do this for every separate instrument, because IME even quite small differences in construction can lead to noticeable changes in the compliance of identical strings.

[shufflebeat]

Or is it that the 22" scale puts it in the 'octave mandolin' area rather than the 'mandola' area for US-made strings (which will typically be for a 17" scale instrument)?

And what tuning do you use?

The tuning is C3:G3:C4:F4.

I've just put a set of mandolin strings on which are lighter than that octave mandolin set and they're too heavy for that tuning/scale so I reckon the O/M set would fold the instrument in half.

The tuning is determined by what role I want the instrument to play in the overall sound plus where the wood starts to sing naturally. My problem has been maintaining some consistency as shops tend to have different (cheapo?) makes in the "singles" box.

[shufflebeat]

This is why you can only use the calculators to get close to the correct gauges for the make and type of string they are designed for.

That's really what I'm after, some experience based opinion on how close I can get with which calc/brand combination.

After that you will have to do some trial and error with strings actually fitted to the instrument in question unit you get the right feel and sound.

I've been doing (always) trial and (often) error for 25yrs now, just trying to put some logic on the process.

All great help ta chaps.

[Wonks]

I'd suggest a set of 10, 13, 17 and 26w, which should give you a pretty much equal 12lbs tension per string. Not too much, but still enough snap for plectrum picking. That's pretty much the top 4 strings from an electric set of 10s.

I've got a 22" scale tenor guitar with a 0.010" E4. The 2nd fret is roughly at 20", and dropping that string down a tone the tension still feels OK and not too floppy.

However, with my selection you may find it hard to find wound 3rds.

If you didn't need loop ended strings, it would be fairly easy to make up a set from guitar strings.

[BigRedX]

If you didn't need loop ended strings, it would be fairly easy to make up a set from guitar strings.

I've always made loop-ended strings by twisting the end of the string to release the "ball".

[Wonks]

What about making a set from single loop-ended banjo strings?

https://www.eaglemusicshop.com/prod/ban ... le-Strings

You could make a set of those up up for around £11. More than a single set of octave mandolin strings, but if you stray away from the normal tunings you do end up paying more for custom selections.

[shufflebeat]

I'd suggest a set of 10, 13, 17 and 26w, which should give you a pretty much equal 12lbs tension per string. Not too much, but still enough snap for plectrum picking. That's pretty much the top 4 strings from an electric set of 10s.

I've got a 22" scale tenor guitar with a 0.010" E4. The 2nd fret is roughly at 20", and dropping that string down a tone the tension still feels OK and not too floppy.

However, with my selection you may find it hard to find wound 3rds.

If you didn't need loop ended strings, it would be fairly easy to make up a set from guitar strings.

String calc

F4 - 15 kg - 0.010 - 2@ £1.10
C4 - 15 kg - 0.014 - 2@ £1.10
G3 - 15 kg - 0.020 - 2@ £1.50
C3 - 15 kg - 0.030 - 2@ £1.75

Total - £10.90

These are the numbers I'll be going with when I next go trialling, based on previous experience and a few minutes with the abacus.

The mandola takes ball ends so regular strings are fine. In the past I used a mag pickup which necessitated the use of nickel strings. When I swapped to an SBT (K&K Twin Spot) I took the opportunity to move to phosphor bronze but found them to be not so nice so I'll be going back to the nickels for now which I think will suit the K&K - more note, less thump.

[Sam Spoons]

If you didn't need loop ended strings, it would be fairly easy to make up a set from guitar strings.

I've always made loop-ended strings by twisting the end of the string to release the "ball".

I believe it's easy to remove the 'balls' from ball ended strings by placing the ball on a hard surface and giving it a sharp crack with a hammer. If done right that breaks it in two through the groove and, thus, you don't have to disturb the twist lock. Haven't tried it for years but will go and dig out a couple of old strings to remind myself which orientation to place the ball.

[Wonks]

Could you make a video of you placing your balls on a hard surface and giving them a sharp blow with a big hammer? It could be quite entertaining, if rather eye watering.

[Sam Spoons]

I'll let you know...

BTW I believe there are certain ladies who will accommodate such prediliciions for a small consideration...

[shufflebeat]

Have we changed the subject?

Just checkin'.

[shufflebeat]

I called to my local (almost) neighbourhood purveyor of strings, balled and ball-less (nice guys) and made up a set.

I did stumble a bit on the plain/wound question and needed to adapt my gauge selection towards the heavier end to include a wound C4. This was to maintain some tonal balance on the assumption that a plain C4 would protrude, sonically speaking, but as 0.018 was the finest wound available I needed to nudge the others a little heavier to maintain the differences

I'll be sticking them on tonight and will report back in case anyone is interested.

Carry on hammering your balls.

[Edit]

Do not Google "light wound" "G string"!

[shufflebeat]

I've just spent a very pleasant hour twiddling tunes and sweeping a few chords to sing along to (Song to the Siren, She Moved Through The Fair).

The mandola (for the record, I call it Nelson) sounds exactly like it used to before I put the PBs on it. There's a lovely harmonious midrange and a twinkly top end that has recently sounded harsh until the PBs lost their freshness, then it just sounded dull.

I'm looking forward to sparking up an amp in the cold light of day and hearing how these strings balance through the pickup but acoustically they sound perfect.

There is a tiny bit of something clashing because the saddle is so near the bridge pin holes the winding on one of the strings encroaches onto the back of the saddle but I can live with that for now.

There was a hint of Clang on first twiddle but either that has settled down or my ears are becoming accustomed to it, either way it's not bothering me now.

Thanks all for the chat, nonsense and wisdom.

I ended up with D'Addario:

10p x2
18w x2
24w x2
34w x2