New synth challenge -- the performance drone recording!

[Ben Asaro]

Well, I guess this will end up being my last synth challenge of the year as it's almost October and I'm finishing up my previous challenge (scoring a silent film) and I have no idea how long it will take to pull the next one off!

This is going be a bit rambly because I'm just starting to think seriously about how I'm going to do this and am already coming up with various obstacles and mental knots to untangle.

The goal of my next challenge is to record in real time a performance using just the Lyra-8 and Subharmonicon. And maybe a kick drum or some other minimal percussion? Not sure.

I have my effects chain already done (discussed in another thread) and a BOSS RC-5 looper. My goal is to have the output of the looper going straight into my interface and press record. What it gets is what it gets, so I'm expecting this to take days or weeks to get a performance I can live with. As I am off the last two weeks of November, that's my target to work on it in earnest.

The first challenge I was met with was: how long will this be? And will I have any control over how long it will take to get it 'right', or at least 'good'? My guess is that this piece will end up being quite long, probably between 20-30 minutes total. That doesn't worry me, my pieces tend to be very long anyway.

But how to approach this with the looper had me stumped for a few hours today. My original idea was to record 30 minutes of blank space and then overdub layers. However that would lead to the piece being hours long! I kept trimming and trimming and I think I've settled on a length of 1 minute for the track. If I start with a 1-minute long blank, I can then get the first drone layer up, overdub, and then 'perform' each subsequent layer as I improvise, record, and layer again and again.

The idea is, in theory, when I have a dense enough bed of layers, I can improvise a 'lead' layer of the Subharmonicon over the rest. I'm pretty happy with this approach and it looks pretty sound. I'm sure that during the coming weeks this will be modified and tweaked to match the real world constraints of doing this all live -- to say nothing of becoming proficient in improvising with this setup in the first instance!

Overall, I'm excited to start documenting the project here and am looking forward to recording something as a 100% live performance.

[Bob Bickerton]

Probably of no use, but I've finally figured out a way off creating rather nice drones on my harp (the sort with strings) using a Gamechanger Plus Pedal https://www.gamechangeraudio.com/pluspedal/.

You can layer up several loops on top of each other very quickly (if that's what you want) and you can run it in 'wet' mode, which might suit your application. It has it's own effects loop (for the looped sound) into which I patch an Eventide Blackhole pedal to provide some movement to the drone.

This has seriously revolutionised what I can achieve with the harp live and I have heaps of control over how quickly the recorded loop fades in and fades out.

Just a thought.

Bob

[Ben Asaro]

Yes, it’s an a beautiful pedal, I’ve looked into it before. Can it store more than one loop at a time?

[Arpangel]

My experience has been that dedicated loopers aren’t good for me, regarding creating drones, I find delays much more flexible, and things very slowly fade out, allowing new layers to be added, hence more variation over long periods of time, Frippertronics style.
Also, you may find that adding a "lead" over the top, will end up superfluous and just not needed.
I think a large number of oscillators, through processing, gives enormous scope for variation.

[The Elf]

...and I use a combination of long delays *and* loops. The Enso looper has a looping mode that also lets it fade off like a delay, so you get the best of both worlds.

[Arpangel]

...and I use a combination of long delays *and* loops. The Enso looper has a looping mode that also lets it fade off like a delay, so you get the best of both worlds.

I’ve been looking for something like that for a long time, I’ll check it out.



Uh-Oh, just found out it’s software.

[The Elf]

...and I use a combination of long delays *and* loops. The Enso looper has a looping mode that also lets it fade off like a delay, so you get the best of both worlds.

I’ve been looking for something like that for a long time, I’ll check it out.

Uh-Oh, just found out it’s software.

Yup - no hardware equivalent I'm aware of. Closest I can get is with my Line 6 Helix that will loop and delay at the same time.

The Helix will delay-fade over minutes and (thanks to me hassling Line 6!) now stays in time with the tap tempo light!

[Bob Bickerton]

Yes, it’s an a beautiful pedal, I’ve looked into it before. Can it store more than one loop at a time?

Yes, in group mode you can layer up lots of loops. But maybe think of it as a sampler rather than a looper. It samples a short section of audio when you press down the pedal and, I assume, cross fades the sample which it then loops. Slightly different approach, not so good for the attack on short notes, but manages tails and sustained notes really well.

Bob

[Bob Bickerton]

...and I use a combination of long delays *and* loops. The Enso looper has a looping mode that also lets it fade off like a delay, so you get the best of both worlds.

I’ve been looking for something like that for a long time, I’ll check it out.

Uh-Oh, just found out it’s software.

Yup - no hardware equivalent I'm aware of.

Recently bought a Electro Harmonix 720 Stereo Looper (https://www.ehx.com/products/720/) which does exactly that. You can programme up to 60 seconds of fade out - best looper pedal I’ve come across yet!

Bob

[Ben Asaro]

My experience has been that dedicated loopers aren’t good for me, regarding creating drones, I find delays much more flexible, and things very slowly fade out, allowing new layers to be added, hence more variation over long periods of time, Frippertronics style.
Also, you may find that adding a "lead" over the top, will end up superfluous and just not needed.
I think a large number of oscillators, through processing, gives enormous scope for variation.

Neat! This will be much less of an ambient/Frippertronics/musique concrete thing and closer to pure drone music, though not as dry as most drone albums.

[Ben Asaro]

...and I use a combination of long delays *and* loops. The Enso looper has a looping mode that also lets it fade off like a delay, so you get the best of both worlds.

I’ve been looking for something like that for a long time, I’ll check it out.

Uh-Oh, just found out it’s software.

Yup - no hardware equivalent I'm aware of.

Recently bought a Electro Harmonix 720 Stereo Looper (https://www.ehx.com/products/720/) which does exactly that. You can programme up to 60 seconds of fade out - best looper pedal I’ve come across yet!

Bob

The BOSS RC-5 has programmable fade in and fade out as well.

[Ben Asaro]

Yes, it’s an a beautiful pedal, I’ve looked into it before. Can it store more than one loop at a time?

Yes, in group mode you can layer up lots of loops. But maybe think of it as a sampler rather than a looper. It samples a short section of audio when you press down the pedal and, I assume, cross fades the sample which it then loops. Slightly different approach, not so good for the attack on short notes, but manages tails and sustained notes really well.

Bob

Thanks for the extra info, Bob! Yes, it looks like a granular sampler, very cool, and I do actually want one, but I’m not sure how relevant it would be to this particular project. Still, you never know, GAS has a weird way of causing new things to show up!

[The Elf]

Ooh! Well, I never knew fade was an option on other loopers. Just goes to show ya!

I have my fade set for several minutes on my Helix. 60 seconds wouldn't cut it for me. I need time to think while I'm scratching around in my Mellotron for the next sound!

[Bob Bickerton]

Ooh! Well, I never knew fade was an option on other loopers. Just goes to show ya!

I have my fade set for several minutes on my Helix. 60 seconds wouldn't cut it for me. I need time to think while I'm scratching around in my Mellotron for the next sound!

Ah, I think I’d already be drinking beer in the pub by the time your looper faded

Bob

[IAA]

The goal of my next challenge is to record in real time a performance using just the Lyra-8 and Subharmonicon. And maybe a kick drum or some other minimal percussion? Not sure.

Ben your approach I find very inspirational. I’ve followed your personal musical “challenges “ with interest. I’m working hard(ish) on my first release but it’s hard work and I need to balance it with something more improvisational. Your ideas got me thinking that I might work on a similar idea, but just use live loops in logic (never used them before) and my hardware synths to create one piece of “live” music and record that. Maybe even film it and premier it on YouTube......even if no one watches it’s the preparation and execution that would fire me up I’m sure.

[Ben Asaro]

The goal of my next challenge is to record in real time a performance using just the Lyra-8 and Subharmonicon. And maybe a kick drum or some other minimal percussion? Not sure.

Ben your approach I find very inspirational. I’ve followed your personal musical “challenges “ with interest. I’m working hard(ish) on my first release but it’s hard work and I need to balance it with something more improvisational. Your ideas got me thinking that I might work on a similar idea, but just use live loops in logic (never used them before) and my hardware synths to create one piece of “live” music and record that. Maybe even film it and premier it on YouTube......even if no one watches it’s the preparation and execution that would fire me up I’m sure.

Wow, thanks for the kind words.

That sounds like a wonderful idea, I hope you get some inspiration out of the process! A modern sequencer, even if preloaded, can still be used as a tool for improvisation.

As time goes on I find myself being less and less interested in making music that’s the product of well-rehearsed layers and more of a document of a single point in time. In my case it tends to pieces that are minimalist and not overly complex due to the fact that I have very little facility with playing keys.

I’m looking forward to what you come up with!

[Ben Asaro]

Began sketching the basic structure:

[Martin Walker]

Love that title!!!

[Ben Asaro]

Some good news on all fronts!

1. The new album is in the can, mixed and awaiting mastering.

2. The accompanying film score is 50% complete and should be right on schedule for a late October completion date.

3. I was able to conduct my first minor experiment for the drone performance: syncing the SubH to the RC-5. I’m happy to announce that it went down a treat: simply connected a 3.5mm TRS cable between the two units and they synced up perfectly!

I am still holding off any real work until the film score is done, but this setup means that I won’t have to convert MIDI clock to analogue sync.

[Ben Asaro]

Preparation has officially begun for the next challenge!

I put together a small rack so I can manage signal flow and get some tonal control over the Lyra-8. The Lyra-8 will go through the PE-15 and then into the return of the Alpha Channel. The Subharmonicon will go straight into the SSL's input and use the channel strip's EQ.

I still haven't sorted out the panning issue yet, but I have a couple of ideas.