Bending | String under or on

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Bending | String under or on

Post by apaclin »

Hey peoples, quick question. When you bend do you make the string above go under your fingers (pic 1) or on the fingers (pic 2)? The first option is less effort + easier to do a vibrato when it goes under, but the string above can fall under a finger rapidly and that will make unwanted noise even if you mute it. The second is just more effort and harder to control.

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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Murray B »

I've edited this post twice now...

It's the first one - kind of, the end of my finger is touching but not fretting the string above. No issues with noise for me when I do this.

Is your action very high? The photos make it look like it's a bit of push to fret the note.
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by apaclin »

Murray B wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:47 pm I've edited this post twice now...

It's the first one - kind of, the end of my finger is touching but not fretting the string above. No issues with noise for me when I do this.

Is your action very high? The photos make it look like it's a bit of push to fret the note.

No, it's not, there is just something wrong with this guitar, that doesn't let to put the strings on the adequate height.
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Sam Spoons »

#1 for me too but I'm not aware of any noises from the next string. Obviously next time I play I'll notice all sorts of nasties when I bend :headbang:
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Wonks »

I have very low actions on my guitars, so there's no over or under for me; all the strings just get pushed sideways next to each other.
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Music Wolf »

Wonks wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:12 pm I have very low actions on my guitars, so there's no over or under for me; all the strings just get pushed sideways next to each other.

Same for me
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Murray B »

Wonks wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:12 pm I have very low actions on my guitars, so there's no over or under for me; all the strings just get pushed sideways next to each other.

^^^That's what I was trying to say but couldn't find the right form of words :headbang:
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Wonks »

apaclin wrote: No, it's not, there is just something wrong with this guitar, that doesn't let to put the strings on the adequate height.

Are the saddles as low as they can go? If so, it sounds like you need a shim for the neck to increase the angle.
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by apaclin »

Wonks wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:56 pm
apaclin wrote: No, it's not, there is just something wrong with this guitar, that doesn't let to put the strings on the adequate height.

Are the saddles as low as they can go? If so, it sounds like you need a shim for the neck to increase the angle.

Actually, the luthier put this shim at the bottom of the neck right to the edge. Calibrate the size by putting more material there?
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Wonks »

Can you just confirm which end of the pocket the shim went, A or B?

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If A, remove it and see how things are.

If B, then you need a taller shim. The shim height needs to be roughly 1/4 of the change in neck angle/height you need at the bridge, so if a line drawn along the top of the neck is (say) currently meeting the bridge roughly 2mm below the top of the saddles set to the the lowest point, then the neck angle needs to be altered so the neck points up 4-6mm higher, so a 1mm-1.5mm shim should do it.

A shim at one end of the pocket that angles the neck is far more effective than a flat piece that raises the whole neck up, as you'd need a 4-6mm thick piece to get the same effect.
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by RionZ »

Wonks wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:12 pm I have very low actions on my guitars, so there's no over or under for me; all the strings just get pushed sideways next to each other.

Same for me...

I actually have incredibly low frets (like paper matches from a matchbook laid across the finger board is one apt description I saw somewhere).

It's a 70s Gibson SG and I think it's from an era when this was the norm... the so called "fretless wonders".

Over the years I've developed a technique of pressing hard when bending and kind of "rolling" my finger for bends.

Am at the point now of considering a re-fret since the already low frets are now at the point where they would be a serious problem for bends if I went for another levelling and re-crown.

However, I'll stick with nice low frets on the Gibson as that's part of its appeal... thinking 0.7 - 0.8mm would probably be ideal. At the moment I'd say they're about 0.6mm.

My Ibanez RG770 is another story entirely with tall frets... essentially it's like having a scalloped fingerboard where I can push the string into the "void" between the frets to avoid catching another string.

Two guitars with a different approach to playing style!
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by apaclin »

Wonks wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:13 am Can you just confirm which end of the pocket the shim went, A or B?

It's B of course.

RionZ wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:23 pm I actually have incredibly low frets (like paper matches from a matchbook laid across the finger board is one apt description I saw somewhere).

Are there any benefits of low/high frets?
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by RionZ »

Up and down sides to both in my experience.

I find the low frets on my Gibson tend to encourage me to slide more in my playing, e.g instead of doing a hammer-on/off i'd slide up or down to the note. Also, it just feels more "slick" moving up and down the neck as you hardly notice the frets are there (some have described jumbo frets as akin to playing a ladder!). The downsides are the aforementioned difficulty in doing bends without catching the adjacent string - obviously more of a problem if action is also low. And... in comparison to the tall frets on my Ibanez, it feels like less of an "accurate" guitar for runs and scales.
All of the above could be inverted and applied to the taller frets as advantages/disadvantages, so the Ibanez is very accurate for fast playing - my fingers just seem to land in the right place. Also, the action can be ridiculously low but still not an issue in terms of bends because you have room to push the string down while bending. On the other hand, it does feel a less comfortable moving up and down the neck due to the mass of the frets.. added to the fact that Ibanez floyd rose guitars have a very flat profile. I definitely prefer the Gibson for rhythm and chordal playing, but that may well be more to do with the thin neck and more rounded fingerboard profile.
In my mind the Ibanez is for "master shredder" type stuff whereas the Gibson is more rock n roll :)
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Wonks »

apaclin wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:18 pm
Wonks wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:13 am Can you just confirm which end of the pocket the shim went, A or B?

It's B of course.

You can put a shim at either end to get the neck angle correct, though I really wouldn't want to put one in position A unless there was no other option.

But if the shim was in position B, then I've no idea why you can't get a decent action.
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by zenguitar »

We're gonna need a bigger shim!!!

Andy :beamup:
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by Wonks »

:thumbup:

It's weird to need one that's so large on a guitar from a major manufacturer. Unless someone's had a go themselves at changing the angle on the heel themselves in the past instead of fitting a shim.
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Re: Bending | String under or on

Post by merlyn »

What I notice about the two photos is that in the first one you're using three fingers, and in the second photo you're using two fingers. It is harder to bend using only two fingers. The strings can make a noise as they bump into each other. To get around that it's possible to use the first finger to mute. You can try bending with your pinky, which means there are three fingers bending, plus the first finger to mute.

Try playing a phrase with a bend at the end and see whether 'under' or 'on' happens.
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