Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Arpangel »

nathanscribe wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:58 am
Ben Asaro wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:22 pm
Hugh Robjohns wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:19 pm To be fair, I can see the practical usefulness of being able to vary the speed of vibrato, for example, using a CV generated by say, aftertouch. Or to control a pseudo rotary speaker effect's tremolo speed via an external CV.

You can easily do with with an attenuator, though. And those can be voltage controlled.

Attenuating the LFO would only affect the depth, not the rate. VCLFO is a good thing, I enjoy a bit of envelope modulation of LFO rate for vibrato for example so it slows during release.

Arpangel: how about using a regular VCO but mixing a decent negative offset into the CV?

Good thinking, that’s what’s great about modular, there’s always a load of workarounds, you just have to find them!
Yes, I could use a stackable and an attenuator to introduce a bit of random modulation from a sample and hold.
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That’s another thing

Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Andy Cobley »

The thing that annoys me the most is a lot of modules only have a single input or output, meaning the needs for mults. Just my twopence but:

VFC modules should have more than one audio inputs to mix VCO ins
VCOs should have more than one F/oct again to mix control inputs
ADSRs should have more than one out so its easy to send it to a VCF and a VCA

etc.....
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Eddy Deegan »

Andy Cobley wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:55 pm The thing that annoys me the most is a lot of modules only have a single input or output, meaning the needs for mults. Just my twopence but:

VFC modules should have more than one audio inputs to mix VCO ins
VCOs should have more than one F/oct again to mix control inputs
ADSRs should have more than one out so its easy to send it to a VCF and a VCA

etc.....

But surely that's missing the point of modular rather?! Mults are there for exactly some of these reasons and in addition to those modules that have limited numbers of outputs there are plenty that have more.

I'd rather buy a module with one output and mult it accordingly than have to pay a chunk more for the same module with two or more outputs, unless I'm actually looking for two or more outputs as a feature requirement in which case I'll go find one (or use mults if not)!

If you can't find a module with the outputs you need then there's always a workaround. The modular mindset isn't really about convenience it's about flexibility ;)

There weren't that many conveniences on this thing but it was an absolute joy playing with it (and it's what subsequently got me to take the plunge into modular in euro-rack form)!
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Andy Cobley »

As to the cost, it really doesn't add much. I design my own modules (for my own use) and the cost of an additional output is 1/4 opamp and a jack (about 40p). It's a bit more complicated for inputs, but only a few more resistors.

It does however add a bit more HP in some cases, which could be a problem for some.
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Ben Asaro »

I have to admit, I'm confused ... you have a want, which can be solved by using Maths. You own a Maths but don't want to use the Maths, because then you will have less Maths? :headbang:
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Martin Walker »

Andy Cobley wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:55 pm It does however add a bit more HP in some cases, which could be a problem for some.

Would that need to be an open source design Andy?
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Arpangel »

Ben Asaro wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:18 pm I have to admit, I'm confused ... you have a want, which can be solved by using Maths. You own a Maths but don't want to use the Maths, because then you will have less Maths? :headbang:

Hang on, of course, I use Maths, all the time, but that doesn’t stop me moaning about it, now, I’m having a different tack, I don’t look at Maths as a multi-function utility, no way, if you do that, you’re in for big trouble, because to get the most out of Maths you have to go deep into self patching, which wipes out utilities.
Maths is a stand alone complex oscillator, in every way, and that’s what I use it for now, I make sure I’ve got utility bases covered elsewhere, that’s why you may get confused about how I write about it.
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Andy Cobley »

Would that need to be an open source design Andy?

I'm not sure what your asking Martin ? Most of my work is on github, but it's not really in a state others can reliably use.
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Ben Asaro »

Arpangel wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:58 am
Ben Asaro wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:18 pm I have to admit, I'm confused ... you have a want, which can be solved by using Maths. You own a Maths but don't want to use the Maths, because then you will have less Maths? :headbang:

Hang on, of course, I use Maths, all the time, but that doesn’t stop me moaning about it, now, I’m having a different tack, I don’t look at Maths as a multi-function utility, no way, if you do that, you’re in for big trouble, because to get the most out of Maths you have to go deep into self patching, which wipes out utilities.
Maths is a stand alone complex oscillator, in every way, and that’s what I use it for now, I make sure I’ve got utility bases covered elsewhere, that’s why you may get confused about how I write about it.

Aaah … well, that explains it, kinda-sorta. In that case, all you need is a Disting! :D (kidding)
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Martin Walker »

Martin Walker wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:30 pm
Andy Cobley wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:55 pm It does however add a bit more HP in some cases, which could be a problem for some.

Would that need to be an open source design Andy?

Oh dear, my subtle wordplay was obviously too subtle ;)

HP?

Open source?

Well I was pleased with it anyway :yawn:

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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by RichardT »

Martin Walker wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:28 pm
Martin Walker wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:30 pm
Andy Cobley wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:55 pm It does however add a bit more HP in some cases, which could be a problem for some.

Would that need to be an open source design Andy?

Oh dear, my subtle wordplay was obviously too subtle ;)

HP?

Open source?

Well I was pleased with it anyway :yawn:

Martin

I liked it
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Re: Modular frustrations, wants, needs etc,

Post by Random Guitarist »

Eddy Deegan wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:11 pm If you can't find a module with the outputs you need then there's always a workaround. The modular mindset isn't really about convenience it's about flexibility ;)

To me this is spot on, and is both the strength and weakness of a fully modular synth. I definitely struggle with keeping creative thoughts and modular synth engineering thoughts in my head at the same time.

Yes I can patch in a mult and configure things in a million ways, but by the time I've done that I have forgotten what I wanted to do musically. I think this is why I find semi-modulars like the Neutron and Mother32 hit such a sweet spot for me. I suspect if I were wealthy I'd end up with a lot of modules, and they'd end up semi permanently patched in groups for sounds I really liked.

At times I am in a love/hate relatuionship with modular, love the flexibility, but hate patching the thing. Perhaps I need to spend more time with the modular and develop a deeper ability to patch? Perhaps, for me at least, life is too short?
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