Neumann KH150 and KH120II

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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Wonks »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 7:46 pm And much as I'm sure Audio Science Review is creditable, it would be remiss of me on the Sound On Sound forums not to highlight our own Paul Ward reviews which always include detailed acoustic measurements and analysis.

The Elf’s reviews are almost as detailed as Phil Ward’s, your monitor reviewer. ;)
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

:oops: oops. Sorry for the name swap, Gents. It's been a tiring weekend!
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by tea for two »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 10:17 pm Just to stir the pudding once more... headphones are great for analysing bass free of misleading room modes. But... they don't provide that visceral, trouser flapping energy that a subwoofer gives.

I can whole heartedly endorse Zuke's recommendation Audeze LCD-X.
Although I have AKG712 for checking Bass specs say 10Hz, these Audeze are another level.
There is also wearable Subpack to wear as a backpack.
Haven't tried them so cannot comment.

Although an online hearing test said my hearing is impaired below 24Hz.

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 7:46 pm would be remiss of me on the Sound On Sound forums not to highlight our own Paul Ward reviews which always include detailed acoustic measurements and analysis.

Phil twin of Paul is my go to :lol:
https://www.soundonsound.com/search/all ... =Phil+ward
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Thomas Shea »

Jorge wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 8:05 pm Thanks Tom. I believe SOS is preparing to publish a review of the KH120II in the June issue, so I expect that will include much objective information in addition to subjective impressions by highly experienced SOS staff.

I have been comparing the KH120A I have had for years with the KH120II I just received a few days ago, in a reasonably well treated rehearsal/recording studio in my basement. Much of the music we play is Cuban Timba and AfroCuban Jazz, which have very melodic and deep bass in most songs. At rehearsals I play back recordings of our group and other music for the whole group and the bass rolloff of the KH120II with no sub is still audible for the lowest bass notes. Our bass player has a 4 string and doesn't plan to get a 5 string. I use headphones for mixing the low bass but would like the studio monitors to have pretty flat playback capability down to 41 Hz. We hope to make an album in this studio as well and I would do the mixing but probably not the mastering.

So I am deciding whether to add a subwoofer to the KH120IIs (or KH120As) or to get the KH150 monitors to use without a sub instead of the KH120 plus sub. Hence my question to you about comparing those 2 configurations.

That is a quite interesting - I will be interested in your decision.
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Jorge »

A subwoofer does add some low end flatness to the KH120A/II but has anyone used the KH150 with the KH750 or other subwoofer? For 80-90 dB music down to 40 Hz in a reasonably well treated home studio, would a KH750 sub add anything to the KH150?
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by sonics »

tea for two wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 8:34 pm Although an online hearing test said my hearing is impaired below 24Hz.

Your speaker playback system is flat to 24Hz? Do remember that those frequencies are felt by the body, not heard by the ears.
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Wonks »

No, he's imp-eared, rather like Spock. :D
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Wonks »

Jorge wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 12:56 pm A subwoofer does add some low end flatness to the KH120A/II but has anyone used the KH150 with the KH750 or other subwoofer? For 80-90 dB music down to 40 Hz in a reasonably well treated home studio, would a KH750 sub add anything to the KH150?

In theory, you'll be going right down to 18Hz (at -3dB) with the ZH750, which is around 20Hz lower than just the KH150 (though the maximum SPL graph for 1% THD on the KH750 page tells a very different story about quality LF roll-off, so I'm not sure what's going on there). So another whole octave of sound.

https://www.neumann.com/en-en/products/ ... h-750-dsp/

I'm thinking that with 20Hz sounds you'd need a very well treated studio rather than a just reasonably treated one. Sound transmission of deep bass may also be an issue at 90dB levels. If you're nice and isolated, then maybe not a problem (apart from possible building vibration), but with near-neighbours, you might not be that popular.
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by tea for two »

sonics wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 5:50 pm
tea for two wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 8:34 pm Although an online hearing test said my hearing is impaired below 24Hz.

Your speaker playback system is flat to 24Hz? Do remember that those frequencies are felt by the body, not heard by the ears.

Gosh I wish my poor Eris were lol.
It's a headphone hearing test I did on my K712.

::

Wonks wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 6:05 pm No, he's imp-eared, rather like Spock. :D

:lol: I am illogical.
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by sonics »

tea for two wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:35 pm Gosh I wish my poor Eris were lol.
It's a headphone hearing test I did on my K712.

Ah, the ones with a bass roll-off below 100Hz to :lol:

And how were the Eris 3.5 at 24Hz? Flapping your trousers? :shocked:
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by tea for two »

sonics wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:44 pm
tea for two wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:35 pm Gosh I wish my poor Eris were lol.
It's a headphone hearing test I did on my K712.

Ah, the ones with a bass roll-off below 100Hz to :lol:

And how were the Eris 3.5 at 24Hz? Flapping your trousers? :shocked:

:lol: those poor Eris are still hanging on.
K712 pro specs say 10Hz I can't feel it to save me life .
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Wonks »

sonics wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:44 pm
tea for two wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:35 pm Gosh I wish my poor Eris were lol.
It's a headphone hearing test I did on my K712.

Ah, the ones with a bass roll-off below 100Hz to :lol:
:

Well, tests seem to show them down at about -10dB at 20Hz rolling off from 100Hz where it’s nominally flat.

So pretty good, if not perfect. But you’ll need a fair bit of correction to get them flat enough to be any use for a hearing test.

You’d also need to look at the equal loudness curves for the SPL you’re working at and make allowances in volume for that. Probably (not an audiologist).
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by tea for two »

https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_si ... 20-20k.php
Sine sweep tone 20Hz to 20kHz.

https://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html
Tone from 0Hz to as high as ears can hear.
It's too fast to get a reading for the lowest Hz but it's useful for low mid to higher.

https://www.soundguys.com/hearing-test-20567/
This has 20Hz tone, 16kHz tone, 20kHz tone.

https://hearingtest.online/
For 250Hz to 2kHz.

https://hearing-screener.beyondhearing. ... WI/welcome
For 1kHz 2kHz.

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can ... ring-test/
For 8kHz to 22kHz tones.

Doing these tests in the morning just now 7.34am ish
using K712.
Beyond 12.57kHz my hearing is impaired (imp eared lol).
I can hear 20Hz fine.

My main issue is certain frequency sounds now hurt me ears such as violins played high up, various synthy sounds, lots of kick sounds snare sounds, lots of hihats : these are on commercial releases.
So nowadays I choose sounds edit sounds mix so as not to hurt me ears.
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by porthoss78 »

Just in case some people had not seen it, Neumann issued the following information on Instagram about the KH120 II:

Dear Neumann Community:⁣
We need to inform you that some of our new KH 120 II monitors are affected by a firmware error that prevents them from being recognized by our MA 1 Monitor Alignment software.⁣

Please note that we have identified the root cause (which in no way affects the quality of the monitor), got to work immediately, and are now releasing MA 1 version 1.6.3, which will detect the affected units and update the firmware, fix the error and set them to factory-like condition.⁣

All KH 120 II with serial number 6173455293 and above are not affected.⁣

We would like to thank our community for their feedback and contributions that allowed us to quickly fix this issue.⁣

We would like to apologize to the affected customers for the inconvenience caused and are sure that you will now enjoy your KH 120 II to the fullest.⁣

Click the link in our bio to download the latest MA 1 version 1.6.3!⁣


Seems pretty straight forward :)
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by ConcertinaChap »

What an ingenious fix!

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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by ConcertinaChap »

Well having read Phil Ward's review of the KH120 II's my first reaction is where's my credit card ...

So, in fact, was my second. Managed to resist so far but it's only a matter of time.

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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

For ease of access to the KH120mk2 review:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh120-ii
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by RichardT »

I wonder if there's a trade in for KH120 Mk 1s......
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by ConcertinaChap »

There are so many advantages to having a musician wife. For instance if I get the KH120 mk II's she gets my current mk I's which will represent a real improvement over her Genelec 8020's, and she will be pleased.

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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by ConcertinaChap »

porthoss78 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:03 am Just in case some people had not seen it, Neumann issued the following information on Instagram about the KH120 II:

Dear Neumann Community:⁣
We need to inform you that some of our new KH 120 II monitors are affected by a firmware error that prevents them from being recognized by our MA 1 Monitor Alignment software.⁣

Please note that we have identified the root cause (which in no way affects the quality of the monitor), got to work immediately, and are now releasing MA 1 version 1.6.3, which will detect the affected units and update the firmware, fix the error and set them to factory-like condition.⁣

All KH 120 II with serial number 6173455293 and above are not affected.⁣

We would like to thank our community for their feedback and contributions that allowed us to quickly fix this issue.⁣

We would like to apologize to the affected customers for the inconvenience caused and are sure that you will now enjoy your KH 120 II to the fullest.⁣

Click the link in our bio to download the latest MA 1 version 1.6.3!⁣


Seems pretty straight forward :)

Well, here's an interesting thing. Both my 2 month old KH120 IIs have serial numbers that bring them into the affected range. I am trying to calibrate them with MA1 software version 1.7.0.3833. This is not updating the firmware. It is instead crashing. Since Neumann support have not responded to my problem for 12 days now I am not a happy bunny.

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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Wonks »

Can you get hold of v1.6.3 and see if that works to update the firmware? Sometimes the necessary updates to cure a particular issue aren’t included in all later updates.
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Want me to see if I can get that older download?

EDIT - can't find that specific download but have left a note on their instagram to see if that generates a response.
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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by ConcertinaChap »

Don't do instagram so that would be good.

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Re: Neumann KH150 and KH120II

Post by Jorge »

ConcertinaChap wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:54 pm
porthoss78 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:03 am Just in case some people had not seen it, Neumann issued the following information on Instagram about the KH120 II:

Dear Neumann Community:⁣
We need to inform you that some of our new KH 120 II monitors are affected by a firmware error that prevents them from being recognized by our MA 1 Monitor Alignment software.⁣

Please note that we have identified the root cause (which in no way affects the quality of the monitor), got to work immediately, and are now releasing MA 1 version 1.6.3, which will detect the affected units and update the firmware, fix the error and set them to factory-like condition.⁣

All KH 120 II with serial number 6173455293 and above are not affected.⁣

We would like to thank our community for their feedback and contributions that allowed us to quickly fix this issue.⁣

We would like to apologize to the affected customers for the inconvenience caused and are sure that you will now enjoy your KH 120 II to the fullest.⁣

Click the link in our bio to download the latest MA 1 version 1.6.3!⁣


Seems pretty straight forward :)

Well, here's an interesting thing. Both my 2 month old KH120 IIs have serial numbers that bring them into the affected range. I am trying to calibrate them with MA1 software version 1.7.0.3833. This is not updating the firmware. It is instead crashing. Since Neumann support have not responded to my problem for 12 days now I am not a happy bunny.

CC

Any update on this? I am about to buy a KH750 and MA1 for a reasonably well-treated studio with KH120 II monitors that are in the affected S/N range. But I don't want to get into difficulties with a poorly behaved firmware fix. Have you been able to update your KH120 II firmware? I didn't find any discussion of this problem on the Neumann website, but I do note that the latest MA1 software is ver 1.7.0.5749. Is that better behaved than 1.7.0.3833? Did it incorporate the firmware fix?
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