Amp recommendations for PMC TB2+ monitors (and XB1-p) - upgrades from Flying Mole DAD-M100

[Dan B]

Hi,

I currently have 2 DAD-M100 pro class D monoblocks powering my PMC TB2+ (via the PMC XB1-p - passive sub).

I'm keen to improve my monitoring setup. I gather that my amps are likely to be the limiting factor and that class D technology has come a long way (although there may be other options too). So I'd welcome any suggestions for an upgrade - without going too mad on the budget (else I might more sensibly be in the "sell the lot and start again" territory).

Doesn't need to be class D, but that seems to be where the value for money is (or, was).

Many thanks,

Dan

[Zukan]

I used to use a Bryston 4B to power my TB2s but I am amazed the Flying Moles aren't sufficient.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Any reasonably chunky power amp would work well, and within reason the more power the better with TB2s. Anything up to 400W or so would be fine. U'm assuming that since you're powering via the sub, you don't specifically need monobloc amps, and a normal two-channel job would be fine.

Annoyingly, PMC no longer make amps for the TB2 range, and the only amp they currently make us way too powerful. Ideally I'd suggest looking for second hand Brystons (3B, 4B, PP120s, that kind of thing), or big Haflers and similar chunky power amps. Obviously you don't want anything with fans in! I've run my old TB2s from a 4B very happily, and from Powerpac 120s with equal success.

If you want new, then I like the MC2 class-D power amps a lot:
https://www.mc2-audio.co.uk/

If you're into DIY then the Hypex amplifier and PSU modules are easy to work with and sound very good:
https://www.hypex.nl/oem-audio-amplifiers/

I've tried running TB2s on a both a 1st gen Quad 405 and a studio 520f amp and they were both okay, but in comparison with the Brystons it felt like they lacked a bit of weight and sparkle...

HTH

[Dan B]

Thanks Hugh - that's really helpful!

I'm currently powering the TB2s via the XB1, but (I think this would work...) could power the XB1s directly using the Flying Moles (which would also give me independent volume control(s) for the sub), leaving the new amp to power the TB2s directly.

Downside of that approach is that I'd be running the TB2s at full range, rather than cleaner up by the crossover of the XB1. Plus the XB1 would be powered by an inferior amp.

Is there anyone who does a DIY type assembly job on the Hypex (or Icepower) stuff who I might use to put something together, assuming that's likely to be a worthwhile improvement on the FMs?

Cheers,

Dan

[Dan B]

I used to use a Bryston 4B to power my TB2s but I am amazed the Flying Moles aren't sufficient.

It's not that the FMs aren't sufficient. It's more that a few people have planted the seed that they're the weak point in the chain and that there might be a worthwhile improvement to be had by upgrading.

So, upgraditis!

Always happy to be talked out of dropping £££ though!

[James Perrett]

Is there anyone who does a DIY type assembly job on the Hypex (or Icepower) stuff who I might use to put something together, assuming that's likely to be a worthwhile improvement on the FMs?

For my Hypex build I used a Quad 405 case. There were enough holes in the right places to mount almost everything. The only holes I had to drill were for the input connectors as I wanted to used balanced connections. Hypex supply most of the wiring looms so I just had to crimp a few connections for the speaker sockets and the mains sockets (I used the existing connectors for both of these).

If I hadn't had the Quad case I would probably have bought a cheap Chinese power amp, gutted it and then mounted the Hypex modules in it. This almost seems cheaper than buying a case on its own.

However, I'm really not sure how much of an improvement it would be over the amps you currently have - the difference will be pretty subtle and there may be other areas (like room acoustics) which would make more difference for less money.

[Dan B]

Thanks James - also v helpful!

I don't think there's a much more I can do in the space as far as room acoustics go - Rockwooled to the max already.

It may be that it's not worth doing anything as far as the FMs go. I guess the next step up would be to get a whole new active monitor setup - something like the KH310s. So we're probably looking at £3k-£4k. Which may or may not be a significant improvement on the current setup... But for that kinda £££, I'd want it to be quite a step up!

[Hugh Robjohns]

The Flying Moles are good quality amps, and I still use a pair on some PMC DB1s sometimes. However, there are reports of limited lifespan and they can't easily be repaired now. Consequently, there is quite a healthy market for used Flying Mole amps.

I think they are also a little underpowered for the TB2s, and when PMC introduced their own DS001 amps for the activated versions (after Flying Mole stopped trading), they went for something with double the power rating! TB2s really do come alive when they've got 200W or more behind them...

However, if you have the budget and are looking for a decent step up, i can recommend the KH310 which really is in a completely different league -- although that isn't surprising given its properly active 3-way format... And it must be said that, good though they are, the passive/'activated' TB2 design is pretty long in the tooth now.

H

[GavinO]

Hi all. Long shot I know as this was a 2018 post! It was mentioned that Hypex would be a good option for TB2s, and of course their range has changed in the years following. Could anybody point to which family would be the most suitable sonically? I can of course figure out the basics in terms of wattage and single channel format to suit the TB2s, but wondering if anyone has a view on whether NCore, NCoreX, NCD etc are better suited?
Thanks in advance, Gavin

[Hugh Robjohns]

PMC now uses ICE class D power amp modules in its current active speaker series.

https://icepoweraudio.com/products/ampl ... r-modules/

They are available through Sound Imports into the UK:

https://www.soundimports.eu/en/brands/icepower/

I'd suggest the 50ASX2 model as it provides 170W into 4 Ohms and includes an integrated power supply:

https://www.soundimports.eu/en/icepower-50asx2btl.html

But there are many single channel alternatives. The TB2 likes a lot of power, so I'd suggest no less than 100W and up to 250W would be fine.

[Dan B]

Thanks Hugh - much appreciated!
Reasonably priced too

[GavinO]

Thanks so much for the steer Hugh! Will dig into this. Soundimports would have been my route to Hypex as well, great company.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I've not compared the ICE and Hypex equivalents, but I guess PMC chose the ICE amps for a reason.

[Nazard]

Hypex currently offer two types of DIY amplifier modules, the UcD and the Nilai, the latter a new design which competes with the Purifi Class D range. NCore, which is positioned inbetween UcD and Nilai is still available, but only as a full kit including the case. Hypex tell me that the present UcD range is much improved over the original UcD and you could put together an amplifier including 2 x 240W/2 x 400W (UcD400HG) into 8 and 4 ohms respectively, SMPSU and interconnects for around £400 inc VAT.

Personally, I would buy Hypex directly from Hypex, their prices can be slightly less than distributors and they are very helpful. (If you want Hypex Nilai, you should order now as there are two months or so of shipping delays due to demand).

[GavinO]

@Nazard, thanks for the insights, I had looked over the Hypex range and it wasn’t immediately clear to me as a newbie (aside from price and a few telltale specs) how they all fit together. Anyways I’ve ordered the ICE modules for now and am busy designing a backpack type housing for the TB2s. I’ll be sure to post a pic and some feedback of the outcome.

[GavinO]

Hi all,

I’m making some headway with the ICE module backpack for the TB2s. I’m keen to share a few images, can you confirm if that’s allowed on this board, I don’t seem to see a way to attach to the post.

Gavin

[James Perrett]

There's a video explainer linked from this thread

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=75253

which shows how to add images.

Basically you have to host the images somewhere (people often use Imgur) and then post a link to the image file enclosed in this forum's image tags. Don't use the link that Imgur give you, right click on the image and then choose "copy image address".

[GavinO]

Ah many thanks James!

[magpxe93]

Hi there, I’ve recently purchase a set of these speakers and am struggling with an amp.

I’m looking for something cost effective second hand most like so I was looking at the Yamaha P3200 or a qsc rms2450.

Yamaha is less wattage but potentially closer to the reccomended around 300 at 4ohms and the qsc is around 500 watts at 8ohms per channel.

Can I get away with the higher headroom being careful of the qsc or should I go for something less powerful?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Either should be fine, as long as you take care to avoid howlrounds! But personally, I'd look for something closer to 150W into 8 Ohms.

Are either of those amps fan-cooled? If so, the acoustic noise could be an issue

[magpxe93]

Thanks for the response! Yes I believe the amp is fan cooled that’s something I didn’t consider. I guess I could always power off for recording considering I’m only in a small home set up.

I don’t suppose you might have any recommendations that are closer to that amount.

[James Perrett]

I don’t suppose you might have any recommendations that are closer to that amount.

I've had good results from Hypex modules so something like this looks like it would do the job

https://nordacoustics.co.uk/product/nor ... amplifier/

although they have an even cheaper version

https://nordacoustics.co.uk/product/nor ... amplifier/

which is unbalanced as standard but offers XLR input as an option. I presume it is just a case of adding an XLR connector as the Hypex modules that I've used have had balanced inputs as standard.