The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

For fans of synths, pianos or keyboard instruments of any sort.

Moderator: Moderators

Locked

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by resistorman »

t-sun wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:11 pm I saw someone comparing the apparent touch keyboard on the 6-op mini synth platform to the Microfreak and describing that keyboard as 'very expressive'. I haven't laid hands on a Microfreak so I always assumed it was just a standard capacitive touch metal-contact job, similar to some of the old vintage things which were notoriously unreliable and prone to note triggering errors and so on. Have I just missed out on thirty or forty years of development and new touch keyboards are advanced enough to actually offer expressive input or MPE features?

I had the Microfreak for a brief moment and the strips worked OK, much like the virtual keys on the iOS app Animoog, except they had an annoying lip between the keys.
User avatar
resistorman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2691 Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:00 am Location: Asheville NC
"The Best" piece of gear is subjective.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

resistorman wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:57 pm
t-sun wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:11 pm I saw someone comparing the apparent touch keyboard on the 6-op mini synth platform to the Microfreak and describing that keyboard as 'very expressive'. I haven't laid hands on a Microfreak so I always assumed it was just a standard capacitive touch metal-contact job, similar to some of the old vintage things which were notoriously unreliable and prone to note triggering errors and so on. Have I just missed out on thirty or forty years of development and new touch keyboards are advanced enough to actually offer expressive input or MPE features?

I had the Microfreak for a brief moment and the strips worked OK, much like the virtual keys on the iOS app Animoog, except they had an annoying lip between the keys.

My Buchla Easel keyboard was a joke, like the Micro Freak, these touch keyboards are really, not a good idea, Easel or Freak, come on chaps, the benefits of that "expression" aren’t worth the downsides and feel of a toy keyboard, because that’s exactly what they are.
As great as the Easel is, as an integrated instrument, and it is great, its flaws made me very frustrated, and I’m really looking forward to building my own Buchla, with the addition of a proper keyboard.
The Micro Freak has been touted as a poor mans Easel, it isn’t, that’s just not happening in this case, it’s a nice little thing in its own right, but it’s not an Easel.
French synths remind me of Citroen cars, very charming, but inherently unrealistic.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16563 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

A couple of things, render of the first of a possible new line of controller keyboards, with a nice long ribbon and poly-AT, wheels are in the wrong place for my liking but they are looking at $199 for a 61 key which seems a good price for the features that would seem to be offered.

Behringer FB wrote:We’d like to have your opinion. We recently assembled a new engineering division for Midi Controllers and we’re currently designing a complete range of performance controllers.
This is the first draft of our powerful Polykeys 61-key USB/Midi, poly-aftertouch and ribbon controller with CV control. We believe we could make such a product for US$ 199 retail.
What do you think about the features, design and price? Thanks for your valuable feedback.
If you want to collaborate with our synth developers and make your voice heard, please join our “Synthesizer and Drums Behringer Music Tribe" FB Group.

Image

Also more interesting is a render of a UB-X, they have hired someone no only with analogue design experience but experience related to the circuits in the OB-X.

Behringer FB wrote:We have some exciting news for you. In our constant search to hire passionate and experienced engineers, we found a fantastic analog engineer, who has not only decade-long synth design experience, but also specific knowledge related to the OB-X circuitry.
The OB-X is quite different from other synths, as it uses predominantly discrete circuitry, which makes the design and manufacturing more challenging.
This development will now give us a massive head start and we immediately formed a focused engineering team to start the development of the UB-X.
As we recently shared with you, now that we have fully developed the firmware platform for the UB-Xa, we can reuse up to 80% for the next Poly synths such as the UB-X, which will tremendously speed up the development.
We’re super excited about this project and will hopefully announce the lead engineer in the near future. If you like to join this amazing team and have deep experience with mixed architecture hardware or embedded software design, please send your resume to joinus@musictribe.com.
We target to offer an 8-voice UB-X for US$ 1.199 retail.
What do you think about the features, overall design and price?

If you want to collaborate with our synth developers and make your voice heard, please join our “Synthesizer and Drums Behringer Music Tribe" FB Group.

#synthsforall #WeHearYou #synthesizers #behringer See less

Image
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by YashN »

PolyKeys looks nice, but why not include 3 more Keyboard CV + Gates? I would like a MIDI Channel Remapper inside too.

Uberheim is good, but they are pricing it above the original DeepMind. Price hikes across the board may explain this.

I doubt we'll see the release of the Uberheim this year.
YashN
Poster
Posts: 62 Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:56 pm Location: North America

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

YashN wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:21 pm PolyKeys looks nice, but why not include 3 more Keyboard CV + Gates? I would like a MIDI Channel Remapper inside too.

Uberheim is good, but they are pricing it above the original DeepMind. Price hikes across the board may explain this.

I doubt we'll see the release of the Uberheim this year.

I'll actually be surprised if it doesn't, based on reports I've seen of devices out in studios for testing!
User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 20034 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by YashN »

Testing and actual release after mass production are two very distinct things.
YashN
Poster
Posts: 62 Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:56 pm Location: North America

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Mass production is the big issue here, can't do Behringer scale mass production withoutthe semiconductors to go in them!
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Some minor updates, they've changed the render of the OB-X following comments and one question that was asked is will the keybed be the same as the one in the deepmind, Behringer replied "We have different plans ;D "

Image
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Something new* Behringer are testing, the RS-9, a RD-9 as a eurorack module. Targeting $149!

Behringer FB wrote:Ready for testing. We just fired up our new RS-9 Drum Sequencer prototype.
This is the RD-9 drum machine ported to a drum sequencer for Eurorack. 10 individual outputs and full USB/MIDI control, allow you to trigger any external drum module.

We still need more time to finalize and test the module to ensure it’s ready for mass production.
We target a retail price of US$ 149.
What do you think?

Image

Image

Image
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Update on the DS-80, prototype voice board is now finished, though they are still way off completion. Board had two voices and an ARM processor to control it, plus some pots and switches so it can be used on it's own for testing purposes, naturally the voice boards that end up in the DS-80 won't have these controls. An 8 voice would naturally need 8 of said boards so it shows the complexitiy.

Image
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

And similar to yesterdays DS-80 update they have created a similar "bread board" of a Polykobol voice. These are all specualtive as they don;t know if they will have sucess in the cloning process as these synths are very complex but they will at least try. Given the Polykobol is even rarer than the GX-1 with only 40 said to have been made a recreation would be brilliant, and the render does look nice. Noting that they do have access to a Polykobol for testing/analysis purposes.
Also at the end a a "meet the tribers" post where there is so words from John Price, who is working on things like the DS-80 and previously worked with Robert Neve

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Behringer/John Price wrote:Meet our Tribers. Today, we’d like you to meet John Price, who is considered one of the world’s best analog designers. John has over 40 years of industry experience under his belt and worked together with industry legends such as Rupert Neve etc.
John is reading here and perhaps you want to send him some love.

But let’s hear from the man himself.

“From the age of eleven, I really enjoyed listening to music, which developed into an obsession with high quality hi-fi systems. Back then I did not have that much money to spend on equipment, but I was very practical, so I built my own speakers and amps etc.

When I left college, I wanted a job with a hi-fi equipment manufacturer, but did not find anything in my area. So I ended up joining a small pro audio company called Formula Sound, who were located above Strawberry studios in Stockport. During my time there I was assembling graphic equalisers etc. and I also did a little testing.
I learnt a lot there, however the pay was very low, so after a year I looked around and found a job at Amek, who designed and manufactured mixing consoles of various types.
When I started at Amek in 1979 I was assembling PCB’s and wiring large studio consoles. After a while I began testing power supplies and modules, and a little later the main design engineer needed an assistant and I was invited to begin design and development.
I quickly became adept at drawing circuit diagrams and PCB layouts, creating and debugging designs etc., and some years on, I became head of analogue design.
I learnt a huge amount in my 23 years at Amek and in the later years when Rupert Neve was consulting for Amek, I worked with him for a few years developing the 9098 mixing consoles etc. Amek was then purchased by Harman which lead to it closing so it was time for a new job.
In 2003, I was invited to join Midas/Klark Teknik working on the analogue I/O for the digital console XL8 and various analogue consoles plus signal processors.
After a few years, the company was acquired by Music Tribe, and I continued to work on Midas/Klark Teknik products, as well as many Behringer analogue signal processers.
Later I was invited to work on analogue synthesisers such as the System 55, System 100, 2500 series Eurorack modules and the 2600 synth. This was quite daunting at first, however once I got familiar with the concepts, I found them very fascinating as they contain some of the most challenging and complex analogue circuits you will find. But I always like challenges as they keep things interesting.

Currently I am working on the Bode frequency shifter 1630 as seen in the photo and we now have a fully working prototype. MS-5 is currently being beta tested, VCS3 is coming along well and I’m just about to start work on our DS-80 voice board prototype testing and many more exciting new products to come.
Working on these vintage recreations gives me huge respect for the original creators and incredible joy to help let the legacies of these synths live on. I’d like to thank you all for the appreciation of our work.” - John

Image
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

And a video to come soon on the 2-XM, Two voice clone, looking good to me from the latest picture.

Image
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

It's very easy to announce things, when you know they can’t be produced, or delivered, chip shortage, logistics etc.
Not saying that’s the reason here, but there does seem to be a lot of teasers coming out.

;)
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16563 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Arpangel wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:58 pm It's very easy to announce things, when you know they can’t be produced, or delivered, chip shortage, logistics etc.
Not saying that’s the reason here, but there does seem to be a lot of teasers coming out.

;)

Though they are targeting release in a few months for the 2-XM, probably helps that it's a fair bit simpler than a polysynth, esp. one with less chips.
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

DGL. wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:06 pm
Arpangel wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:58 pm It's very easy to announce things, when you know they can’t be produced, or delivered, chip shortage, logistics etc.
Not saying that’s the reason here, but there does seem to be a lot of teasers coming out.

;)

Though they are targeting release in a few months for the 2-XM, probably helps that it's a fair bit simpler than a polysynth, esp. one with less chips.

Any idea how the VCS3 is getting on?
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16563 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Arpangel wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:13 pm
DGL. wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:06 pm
Arpangel wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:58 pm It's very easy to announce things, when you know they can’t be produced, or delivered, chip shortage, logistics etc.
Not saying that’s the reason here, but there does seem to be a lot of teasers coming out.

;)

Though they are targeting release in a few months for the 2-XM, probably helps that it's a fair bit simpler than a polysynth, esp. one with less chips.

Any idea how the VCS3 is getting on?

Nope, John Price is one of the engineers working in it going by the "meet the tribers" post from him on their FB.

As for the UB-X some info on the bloke who is helping create the UB-X, has previously created his own four voice UB-X so has history there.

Image

Behringer FB wrote:Scott “Old Crow” Ryder joins the UB-X synthesizer development team.
We’re extremely proud to have gained another analog synthesizer icon to join our ever-growing synth engineering team. Scott has decades of analog synthesizer experience under his belt and built his own OB-X, CS-80 and many more. Check out his website http://www.cs80.com/.
Scott is reading here, and you may want to send him some love:-)
But let’s listen to his fascinating story:
“As a child of mid ‘60s, the years of my youth went through that strange 5-year gap where electronics hobbyists transitioned from shortwave radio to homebrew computing. Living in that interesting time made me somewhat of a hybrid understudy of both analog and digital electronics. I was already being trained in piano but seeing performances like Virgil Fox’s masterful electronic organ recital and later Michael Iceberg’s “Iceberg Machine” one-man synth band performances at Disney World when he was set up in the Tomorrowland Terrace had me going: “That! I want to do that!”
“That” of course would be me surrounded by these sleek electronic music synthesizers and playing those languid, spacey notes like the soundtrack to some not-yet-made sci-fi films. Of course, when a single polyphonic synthesizer in 1980 cost the same as my car, that dream would have to wait a few years as I went through engineering school. My father had the good grace to purchase a Paia P-4700j synthesizer kit that began a long friendship with Paia’s founder John Simonton. I probably learned more about analog and digital musical electronics putting that all together from Feb. to May 1980 than any other instance of my schooling. Sadly John is no longer with us, but he put my refurbished P-4700j in his Paia “Hall of Fame.” https://paia.com/hallofam/oldcrow/
1983 is when the machine that would herald the (temporary) end of analog synthesizers as we knew them happened - the Yamaha DX7. I had already managed to buy a Korg Polysix at the closeout price of US$800 in 1984 but getting the US$2k needed for a DX7 meant taking out a loan and hoping the part-time work I did at a local electronics shop would cover it. Somehow, I managed and had this nice pairing of the DX7 with the Polysix except one had MIDI and one did not.
Not yet, I should say. In the fall of 1985, I built a MIDI retrofit for the Polysix. MIDI was new then and figuring out the nature of such a circuit was interesting. I decided to simply install a keyboard switch matrix in parallel to the key bed and that way the keys and the MIDI would work together without any issues. I used a Zilog Z8 microcontroller as it was what we used at the electronics shop. That shop, Temp Inc., was a real boon to my early engineering years as I could tape out a board and etch it in their board shop. This was just before I started using PCB CAD in 1988: tape out was just that: black tape on vellum that was photographed in a UV light box to create the artwork negative. Of course, the boards weren’t plated through, silk-screened or solder masked, but they were circuit boards and they did just fine. In the below image a hand-etched board can be seen, with 121 wires creating the keyboard matrix that the incoming MIDI messages would operate. It worked just fine with the DX7.
Of course, as a piano player I missed that weighted key action and now with a full-time job at Temp in 1986 I was able to invest in the core of my keyboard setup that comprised a Yamaha KX-88, which I still use to this day, a Yamaha TX816, and one of Bob Yannes’ wonderful Ensoniq Mirage rack units. With the addition of a digital reverb, harmonizer and some effects pedals, I finally had something I could call a synthesizer rig, and made enough music for an album:
https://www.last.fm/music/Scott+Rider/T ... my+of+Time
In the 1990s, older gear started to need servicing. The Polysix battery was notorious for compromising the patch manager circuit and given the number of folks having issues I decided to make an entire new board. I would continue to do this for a number of machines where the original board or board started to fail. The new boards meant all new parts and avoiding frequent failures as old parts individually started failing. This created a new problem: many analog synthesizers of the 70s, 80s and 90s resorted to custom ICs in order to deal with the complexity of the sound engine at a rational level. This is where my favorite engineering pastime was born, I was going to become a “vintage synthesizer archaeologist.” Analog was new again, and the now-vintage market started going up and up. A Minimoog in 1992 one could have for $750, in 2002 it was $3,000. More than ever keeping the old machines running was a worthwhile effort.
In the early 2000s, I managed to purchase my still-favorite analog synthesizer - the Yamaha CS80. I would not be able to afford one today, which is why I spent several years perfecting what I call “discrete equivalent circuits” that replace the Yamaha custom ICs. This was necessary as I had only one CS80 and I wouldn’t likely find another one, hence I had to keep this one alive. A CS80 has 210 custom ICs and 70% of those are VCAs but that is how Yamaha did it in those days. If a modulation routing needed a level control, they provided one. Then they repeated it eight or sixteen times for each route. This is why the instrument has 40 circuit boards, which are exhibited “A” in my book “Why They Built Things the Way They Did, and Why They Will Never Build Them That Way Again”. The CS-80 is a beautiful beast and entirely a product of the era in which it was made.
I made the filter which turned into a 5U module called the MOTM-480. A later revision using Coolaudio V2164s in place of the lamentably obsoleted CA3280 turned out to be even better, I called it the M480 MkII or RR480 in honor of my friend Robert Rich who uses them frequently. I’ve made the VCA, the VCO, the EGs and I had everything ready for the day the CS80 needed them.
It was about this time (2012), I was reviewing other vintage machines I’d like to have, but market pricing drove the ability to buy right out. I’d already wanted an OB-X, simply because it had that deep, glassy booming power that was in a different sonic sphere than Moog or Yamaha. I looked online for prices, which turned out to be $7000 for a broken one. Well eff that, I said, I’ll just make a 4-voice OB-X of my own. No programmable presets even though I could do it, I was mainly after that sound. It took 4 months, but I had my CrowBX, and it is awesome.
I also made a Minimoog for a friend who lost theirs in hurricane Katrina called Crowminus.
I always wanted to build the machines that make these wonderful tones, and I want to build them in such a way they can be afforded by most anyone. That is why I am here now as a part of Music Tribe and Behringer, because their vision matches my vision. I’m very excited that Behringer is designing their CS-80 version called DS-80 and I’ll surely team up with John Price who’s leading that project.
I have now started to work on the new Behringer UB-X, which will greatly benefit from my CrowBX experience. I know the sound, I know the circuits, I will get it done and I absolutely love it.” - Scott “Old Crow” Rider

DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1962 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

Oh dear, looks I won’t be getting a VCS, my grandchildren might.

:)
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16563 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

Model-15 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewlnCSVEjbQ

256 note sequencer with 3 song memory, arpeggiator, digital spring reverb, 48 patch points.

Expected retail $329

I guess the chip shipments are starting to move again.
t-sun
Regular
Posts: 237 Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:31 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by resistorman »

It seems to me that Uli Behringer is the Henry Ford of synthesizers in some ways. I would bet owners of expensive handmade cars of that era looked down on Fords cheap ripoff of the upper class only automobile.
User avatar
resistorman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2691 Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:00 am Location: Asheville NC
"The Best" piece of gear is subjective.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

t-sun wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:19 pm Model-15 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewlnCSVEjbQ

256 note sequencer with 3 song memory, arpeggiator, digital spring reverb, 48 patch points.

Expected retail $329

I guess the chip shipments are starting to move again.

It’s a Grandmother.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16563 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am
Locked