The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

For fans of synths, pianos or keyboard instruments of any sort.
Locked

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by N i g e l »

A watched kettle never boils !

[also Schrödinger's Berhinger - if you dont look, they may be working on it & imminent release is an option]

Have you googled bcr2000 faults and fixes repairs ? Might be quicker given current supply chain issues and dev lab jobs not being working from home compatible.

ZAQ audio have some hints for one of the BCR2000 issues -

https://zaqaudio.com/forums/topic/ot-bc ... ware-issue
User avatar
N i g e l
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3777 Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:40 pm Location: British Isles

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

I finally managed to get my hands on an RD-9. Initial impressions have been that the build quality is, naturally, similar to the RD-8: Solid, looks great, knobs are frustratingly slow to turn though so doing those snappy Jeff Mills style mixing knob twiddles feels a bit like it's stuck in treacle. I expected that since the RD-8 is the same, and not a problem. It arrived with the most recent firmware installed.

The RD-9 Synthtool interface is how you dump/load patterns and make other changes (enhanced vs authentic, which btw I definitely prefer authentic at this point). It seems pretty useful. I would probably be used to it by now if it weren't apparently impossible to update the firmware on my RD-8 past 1.3.5

Speaking of which, I pulled out the RD-8 to see if I could find a way to update the firmware again. Nope, files still aren't on the Behringer website and it's still not detected by Synthtool. Now I remember why I set it aside months ago out of frustration.
t-sun
Regular
Posts: 240 Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:31 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

I've had similar 'can't find it' situations from my studio PC, but plogging exclusively into my laptop everything worked fine. It could be worth trying different USB ports/hugs and/or borrowing a laptop to effect the update.
User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 20232 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Drew Stephenson »

N i g e l wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:07 pm Have you googled bcr2000 faults and fixes repairs ? Might be quicker given current supply chain issues and dev lab jobs not being working from home compatible.

ZAQ audio have some hints for one of the BCR2000 issues -

https://zaqaudio.com/forums/topic/ot-bc ... ware-issue

Yeah, I've had a look around on a few occasions. I think it's the power supply on this unit. Generally once its warmed up its ok, but it still throws a hissy fit every now and then, sometimes that causes the PC to do the same.
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 25023 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by N i g e l »

I see what your up against, in that the PSU has a funny transformer indicating a switcher PSU without clearly defined safe areas [mains / low volts sides of olde transformer PSU]. Some areas may be working at d.c. voltages higher than mains, which could be shocking :shocked:

Image
User avatar
N i g e l
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3777 Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:40 pm Location: British Isles

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

The Elf wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:10 am I've had similar 'can't find it' situations from my studio PC, but plogging exclusively into my laptop everything worked fine. It could be worth trying different USB ports/hugs and/or borrowing a laptop to effect the update.

Oh it's not that it can't find the RD-8, it's that the 1.X firmware for the RD-8 doesn't communicate with Synthtool, it predates it. Compatibility was added in the 2.02 update, but in order to update to that I need a later firmware than the 1.3.5 which is on their site. 1.4.? I think.
t-sun
Regular
Posts: 240 Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:31 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Drew Stephenson »

N i g e l wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:28 pm I see what your up against, in that the PSU has a funny transformer indicating a switcher PSU without clearly defined safe areas [mains / low volts sides of olde transformer PSU]. Some areas may be working at d.c. voltages higher than mains, which could be shocking :shocked:

Image

Other than very simple stuff (switches, fuses etc.) I stay clear of any mains electricity. Not in my skill set! :)
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 25023 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by nathanscribe »

t-sun wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:51 pm
The Elf wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:10 am I've had similar 'can't find it' situations from my studio PC, but plogging exclusively into my laptop everything worked fine. It could be worth trying different USB ports/hugs and/or borrowing a laptop to effect the update.

Oh it's not that it can't find the RD-8, it's that the 1.X firmware for the RD-8 doesn't communicate with Synthtool, it predates it. Compatibility was added in the 2.02 update, but in order to update to that I need a later firmware than the 1.3.5 which is on their site. 1.4.? I think.

I updated my RD-8 to the latest 2.x version straight from 1.2 or whatever it was, the one it shipped with from the very start. No trouble at all. You don't need to update to some intermediate stage, from what I remember. I'd read a few negative reports but I found it quick and painless, against expectation.
User avatar
nathanscribe
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1488 Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:00 am Location: Wakefield, for my sins.
I have no idea what I'm doing.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

nathanscribe wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:47 pm
t-sun wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:51 pm
The Elf wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:10 am I've had similar 'can't find it' situations from my studio PC, but plogging exclusively into my laptop everything worked fine. It could be worth trying different USB ports/hugs and/or borrowing a laptop to effect the update.

Oh it's not that it can't find the RD-8, it's that the 1.X firmware for the RD-8 doesn't communicate with Synthtool, it predates it. Compatibility was added in the 2.02 update, but in order to update to that I need a later firmware than the 1.3.5 which is on their site. 1.4.? I think.

I updated my RD-8 to the latest 2.x version straight from 1.2 or whatever it was, the one it shipped with from the very start. No trouble at all. You don't need to update to some intermediate stage, from what I remember. I'd read a few negative reports but I found it quick and painless, against expectation.

I’ve tried multiple cables, multiple computers, different versions of windows. Synthtool does not work with anything under 2.0 and there is no direct path to update from the version 1.3.5 on the RD-8 page to any version of 2.

If you still have the rd-8 update tool version you used to update it, it would be a huge help if you uploaded it somewhere.

EDIT TO ADD: this file https://mediadl.musictribe.com/media/PL ... _Rev.A.pdf indicates that it should be possible, but only if the RD-8 has had a failed update? Again, it currently runs the 1.3.5 version without issue but is not detected by Synthtool on any computer in any mode, using the same USB cable that has been used to load 1.3.5 repeatedly.
t-sun
Regular
Posts: 240 Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:31 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by nathanscribe »

t-sun wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:10 pmIf you still have the rd-8 update tool version you used to update it, it would be a huge help if you uploaded it somewhere.

I don't remember the process tbh, but I think it might have been the Synthtribe app, the most recent version of which is on their RD-8 page. It's been a few months and I don't recall the details. But I definitely updated it from the original early factory OS which I'd had on my machine since getting it new when they first came out.
User avatar
nathanscribe
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1488 Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:00 am Location: Wakefield, for my sins.
I have no idea what I'm doing.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

If anyone wants a RD-9 Andertons have them in stock for the time being, I convinced myself to get one for some reason, probably just because I think the RD-8 needs a companion more than anything :lol:
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1992 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

Where’s this VCS3? I’ve got the 2500, 2600, after much deliberation, so look forward to my user report in 2025 based on my cautious purchasing habits.

:D
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16803 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Also posted in the 2600 thread but thought it should also go here,

Looks like they might make a 1601 sequencer to go with their 2600's
Teasing this on FB, in a Model D Etc. style case.
Image
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1992 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by BillB »

Got to admit, my heart sank when I saw this. I had been hoping for something new. Is it really the case that these old designs are so good that they can't be improved upon, inspire new innovation, or only be churned out as clones?

There's a great line in Crossroads (the blues/guitar movie): "You've got to take the music on past where you found it." Behringer really aren't doing that. I'm sure its a great business model.
BillB
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1940 Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:00 am Location: East Yorkshire

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

I'm kinda with you. How many ways of endlessly repeating 16 notes do we need?
User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 20232 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Folderol »

Well, the world doesn't seem to have found a limit for just 12 yet :lol:
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 18406 Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:00 am Location: The Mudway Towns, UK
Yes. I am that Linux nut {apparently now an 'elderly'}
Onwards and... err... sideways!

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

The Elf wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:08 pm I'm kinda with you. How many ways of endlessly repeating 16 notes do we need?

I had the - to me - bizarre realization that other people who work with analog sequencers may not have tried sequencing the gate pulses at anything other than steady 16th/8th/4th etc notes when I watched the announcement video of the new Roland boutique JX and JD, which come with a sequencer and trigger input.

On another note regarding my RD-8 issues I posted about previously, I finally got ahold of someone in the Behringer support group and they have diagnosed it as a hardware issue and provided an RMA. Glad I finally got through to someone, my purchase date was 1/1/21.
t-sun
Regular
Posts: 240 Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:31 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

One useful addition tehy have made is that ti now supports Hz/V so will work with things like the MS20
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1992 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Update on the Syncussion clone, and it's good news!
Hardware design is finalised and ready for production, plus they have secured the necessary components to build them.

Behringer FB wrote:The awesome Syncussion is now getting ready for production. It took us three revisions to nail the sound - but now it’s there. We also secured the chips for this product so we should be fine.
We’re sorry that shipping products is taking much longer than expected, but the chip shortages are very challenging and the way it looks, 2022 won’t see much improvement. Be assured we’re working really hard to get your products delivered as quickly as we possibly can. Thanks for your amazing support.
#wehearyou #wellmakethemall #synthsforeveryone

Image

DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1992 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by BillB »

Again, if they weren't so fixated on cloning stuff, they could put their resources into designing a really great analogue percussion sound module.

Then I wouldn't have had to buy an RD-6 :headbang:
BillB
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1940 Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:00 am Location: East Yorkshire

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Studio Support Gnome »

ManFromGlass wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:02 pm How come the factory photos never show people in them? Are they using gnome and hobbit labour?

just to be clear on this.

No.... as if they could find enough gold guitars in all the world to make me even consider it

just No.....

I'm insulted that you even think I would. :D
User avatar
Studio Support Gnome
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2907 Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:00 am Location: UK
Mostly Retired from Audio.... If I already know you I'll help,  if not....    Ask Hugh Robjohns, unless that is you're in need of 80's shred guitar... that, I'm still interested in having fun with...

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

BillB wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:58 pm There's a great line in Crossroads (the blues/guitar movie): "You've got to take the music on past where you found it." Behringer really aren't doing that. I'm sure its a great business model.

Maybe they took it back a couple of miles from where they found it?
Where exactly did they find it?
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16803 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

I see behringer are teasing about the DS-80 again. It seems they have completed a prototype voice card which contains a complete synth channel with VCOs, VCFs, ADSRs etc (although the image is obviously a render rather than the real thing):

Behringer wrote:We’d love to give you a quick update related to our DS80 development. We now designed a complete voice channel, which is the most difficult aspect of this incredibly complex synthesizer.
Replicating the authentic circuitry of the legendary CS80 is truly challenging and our lead analog engineer John Price is now delivering his master piece.
We’re still a long way away from delivering an iconic musical instrument, but we’re incredibly excited about this project.
Image

User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 39311 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

Is this THE John Price?
User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 20232 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Depending on who you think is the John Price... probably, yes!

Behringer wrote:Where is the innovation in redesigning a legacy synth? Read Uli’s blog...

“I believe people in general have an incorrect understanding when it comes to the effort required in reviving classic synths. In fact the amount of innovation and engineering involved is substantial. Why?

Redesigning analog circuitry poses a very different complexity compared to the digital section. Recreating old analog engines with contemporary components or even re-manufacturing obsolete components in order to achieve the same sonic results, requires less time but a rather rare skill set and serious money when it comes to old chips. You’re talking hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Designing analog circuitry is an art and today you’ll find very few engineers familiar with analog synth designs.

Our analog guru is John Price who has been with Midas and Neve for nearly 40 years. John’s analog experience and circuit designs are legendary and we all tremendously respect the man. John designed some of the world’s best microphone preamps as you can see in the Midas 501 which surpasses everything on the market both in specs as well as audio integrity.

The main workload however is on the digital side as all digital hard and firmware has to be designed from scratch since old processors and other digital components are no longer available. Also the way you designed digital circuitry has fundamentally changed in the past 40 years.

If I would have to sum it up, I would quantify the effort as 10% analog, 80% digital and 10% mechanics, PCB design, etc.

We now have 4 dedicated synth teams with nearly 30 engineers involved in Synthesizer design and the teams are growing. We’re hiring unlimited amount of analog and digital synth engineers - just drop us a note here if you’re interested.

As we always said, our goal is to obsessively listen to our customers and build what they request. This includes both legacy but also new and modern synths such as for example the Neutron. In most cases we combine the wonderful analog legacy engines with modern and innovative workflows which you can find in the DeepMind or the new drum machines RD-808/909, etc.

We‘‘re just warming up and we might even do digital or hybrid synths one day. I still have a few more years left and we will use those to go full out to create as many happy synth customers as we can:-). Thank you for all the amazing support you’re giving us. What a great purpose to get up in the morning and do what we love doing:-)” - Uli

User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 39311 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

The one I'm thinking of is Kenton. :o
User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 20232 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Ah... in that case, no! It's A John Price.... :lol:
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 39311 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

Phew!!!! :lol:
User avatar
The Elf
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 20232 Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Martin Walker »

No, somehow I couldn't see Kenton collaborating with Behringer :beamup:
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 20689 Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:44 am Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by DGL. »

Some updates, a prototype voice board is ready and is being tested and a render of the prototype board has been posted on the Behringer FB page.

Image

Behringer FB wrote:We’d love to give you a quick update related to our DS80 development. We now designed a complete voice channel, which is the most difficult aspect of this incredibly complex synthesizer.
Replicating the authentic circuitry of the legendary CS80 is truly challenging and our lead analog engineer John Price is now delivering his master piece.
We’re still a long way away from delivering this iconic musical instrument, but we’re incredibly excited about this project.
What do you think?

Also according to a reply from Behringer to a question posted on the previous post Solina, Pro 800 and UB-Xa are all ready for production just chip shortages being the reason why they have not been released yet.
DGL.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1992 Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:00 am Location: Portland, Dorset
Locked