The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

[resistorman]

Fortunately, I don't care at all about old synths or their clones so I don't have to meet Mr. U at the crossroads

There's been a couple of things they make that I've found worthwhile: X mixers, Deepmind, etc. which are original designs. But the weird and lucrative fetish for old technology is a thriving market so sadly that's where Behringer puts its energy. What a waste of engineering and the brains they've bought, but hey, that's what people want.

BTW, It's hard to take the claims of pure evil in a tiny corner of the manufacturing world seriously when there is so much real harm integral to the common items we thoughtlessly use and consume every day.

[Arpangel]

Why, in heaven's name, in 2021, would we want an 8-bit/12-bit mono sample player?

What an utterly pointless waste of plastic, metal and manpower.

I can only hope that in reality it does a lot more, but even then...

Oh dear, but my Microgranny, after a rocky start, has proved indispensable, right now anyway, recorded a couple of good tracks with it yesterday that will go in my compost folder.
All of this stuff, seems appropriate now, in my life, 8 bit, too much reverb, noise, degradation, it’s like life as we get older, as I’m experiencing it, distant, desolate, veiled, indistinct, receding, and these tools I’m buying reflect that.
I see my future albums becoming almost totally incoherent, more effects than ever, bass disappears, looking at the history of experimental music, dance music, Techno, it’s a trend that’s slowly happening, it’s not just me, a lot of great tracks are only great because they have exaggerated the use of the technology so much, or left it out entirely, the focus, the bass, the structure, is becoming more and more indistinct.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Quite, you have to question your morality if you are prepared to support Behringer after they attempted to...

I think everyone has to question their morality over virtually every decision they make... But it is their decision to make.

As for the anti-Behringer bandwagon, jump on it if it makes you feel superior on a faux high ground, but it would be hugely naive to think other large companies and corporations dont indulge in similar behind the scenes bullying, reverse engineering competitors' products, dubious business practices, sharp accounting, and all the rest. They do. I know of -- and have even been on the receiving end of -- many such instances. The difference is they are mostly less blatant and dont tend to get caught out and called out quite so easily or often.

The fact is that behringer does have some very good designers and engineers working for the global company, and they are producing some very good products with no real viable competition. At the same time, the global company is also producing some less impressive and rather unimaginative stuff and it would be good, IMHO, if they failed to sell any of it...

Personally, I'm not interested in any of the company's low-rent stuff, or any of its clones of products currently being manufactured by legitimate IP holders. And Behringer's pointless public spats, litigation and shoddy 'marketing' are all self-defeating and hugely self-damaging in exactly the way they deserve to be -- as your post demonstrates perfectly.

But if Behringer is prepared to invest in redesigning, from scratch, the unique circuity required to make something that sounds and performs exactly like a CS80 -- a machine that is unaffordable and largely unserviceable now, and which Yamaha has shown no interest at all in revisiting -- then I would be prepared to evaluate it on an open-minded basis.

If I strictly took the moral high ground, knowing what I know, there are very, very, few companies' products that would get room in my studio... And while that might make me feel morally superior, it wouldn't be very helpful, productive, or realistic.

The world is in shades of grey, not black and white.

[DGL.]

Something else being released/announced soon, looks like some sort of analogue drum machine going by the video/sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0QvMwrsOHk

[The Elf]

It would be nice if it's a CR-78, though those sounds don't suggest it? Maybe this is their sample playback machine.

[DGL.]

It would be nice if it's a CR-78, though those sounds don't suggest it? Maybe this is their sample playback machine.

Sounds all seem to be analogue in the video, maybe it's a korg minipops or similar clone, TBH it sounds to be 808 like but it's only a youtube video.

If they could recreate Kraftwerk's electronic drums then that would be great.

[Martin Walker]

Oh dear, but my Microgranny, after a rocky start, has proved indispensable, right now anyway, recorded a couple of good tracks with it yesterday that will go in my compost folder.
All of this stuff, seems appropriate now, in my life, 8 bit, too much reverb, noise, degradation, it’s like life as we get older, as I’m experiencing it, distant, desolate, veiled, indistinct, receding, and these tools I’m buying reflect that.

Well that's a turn up for the books!

Pleased to hear that your Microgranny has finally settled into her new home

Martin

[Arpangel]

Oh dear, but my Microgranny, after a rocky start, has proved indispensable, right now anyway, recorded a couple of good tracks with it yesterday that will go in my compost folder.
All of this stuff, seems appropriate now, in my life, 8 bit, too much reverb, noise, degradation, it’s like life as we get older, as I’m experiencing it, distant, desolate, veiled, indistinct, receding, and these tools I’m buying reflect that.

Well that's a turn up for the books!

Pleased to hear that your Microgranny has finally settled into her new home

Martin

Yes Martin, I’m treating it like volatile flash memory, I sample something, use it, and it’s gone. If I look at it like that, it won’t damage my head in any way, and I’m getting some lovely textures, just by twiddling the knobs, can’t really think of anything that does this, in this way, so yes, it’s safe for the time being.

[johnny h]

.. it would be hugely naive to think other large companies and corporations dont indulge in similar behind the scenes bullying, reverse engineering competitors' products, dubious business practices, sharp accounting, and all the rest. They do. I know of -- and have even been on the receiving end of -- many such instances. The difference is they are mostly less blatant and dont tend to get caught out and called out quite so easily or often.

Its true that some of biggest names in the industry have highly dubious practices and many are long removed from their founders and merely interested in cashing in on their history. Even so, there is something nakedly aggressive about Behringer's approach and its must be dishearting and offputting for smaller manufacturers when considering entering or continuing in the market. Why bother with the time and investment when, if you're successful, someone will 'pay homage', undercut you and squeeze you out of the market?

But if Behringer is prepared to invest in redesigning, from scratch, the unique circuity required to make something that sounds and performs exactly like a CS80 -- a machine that is unaffordable and largely unserviceable now, and which Yamaha has shown no interest at all in revisiting -- then I would be prepared to evaluate it on an open-minded basis.

If I strictly took the moral high ground, knowing what I know, there are very, very, few companies' products that would get room in my studio... And while that might make me feel morally superior, it wouldn't be very helpful, productive, or realistic.

The world is in shades of grey, not black and white.

There is the Deckard's Dream, although personally I'm not a huge fan of it. Not only is the interface really fiddly in a rack, recreating the original's arbritary limitations for the sake of 'authenticity' is typical of the backwards-looking nostalgia-fest that infects the synth / music tech industry.

It's so depressing that what counts as exciting these days is the recreation of 70s and 80s synths and drum machines. Not that Behringer is fully to blame for this - I had a bit of respect for the DeepMind as it attempted to a little further than merely a Juno clone - I guess the market told them to stick to what people know.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Its true that some of biggest names in the industry have highly dubious practices...

Indeed... but of course 'dubious practices' aren't generally illegal. So while some might turn their noses up, these companies aren't actually doing anything wrong in the strict legal sense.

Why bother with the time and investment when, if you're successful, someone will 'pay homage', undercut you and squeeze you out of the market?

Why? Because if you're successful you'll recoup your costs and be able to expand the business in other directions or with other products. And you might even be able to sell to a larger company. We read of successful companies being bought out every day. We also read daily of companies launching new products with added features and facilities to compete directly with whatever advantage their competitors introduced in their previous models -- often borrowing the same technology. This is all quite normal in business. Perhaps most don't do so blatantly, but it's really the same thing.

There is the Deckard's Dream...

There is, but the lack of integrated A-T keyboard and the extra module to complete the feature set doesn't appeal to me.

However, the point I was trying to make was that despite the widespread anti-Behringer lobby here and elsewhere, my personal view is that a distinctive, perhaps even unique, product like the proposed DS80 deserves to be reviewed on its own merits and with an open mind, regardless of past company deeds. That's certainly how I approached the Behringer X32 digital console, for example, which I found to be a genuinely excellent product.

Let's recognise the good products (and actions) the company makes as well as the less palatable, and be realistic in comparisons to other manufacturers.

[DGL.]

Something interesting was posed earlier on "the other forums" by someone who has been helping out Behringer originally with fixing the RD-8. Noting that AFAIK he is not been paid anything by Behringer for his help.

Had a long chat with Uli today

We're gonna need a bigger list

Some of the creations are going to blow minds when they arrive

Haters gonna hate, it matters not in reality

[johnny h]

We also read daily of companies launching new products with added features and facilities to compete directly with whatever advantage their competitors introduced in their previous models -- often borrowing the same technology. This is all quite normal in business. Perhaps most don't do so blatantly, but it's really the same thing.

It is highly unusual (in any industry) for a company to threaten to sue individual forum members for pointing out similarities in product ranges.

It is also highly unusual (in any industry) for a company to personally and publically attack a prominent industry journalist with very questionable imagery that many people find extremely offensive.

But sure, yes, they are cheap. Excuses have to be found!

[zenguitar]

But sure, yes, they are cheap. Excuses have to be found!

And no one here is making excuses for Behringer. Or are you claiming otherwise?

Andy

[Eddy Deegan]

When I posted my Behringer-related 'rant' in the lounge my stated aim was to get it off my chest, which I have done.

I can say hand on heart that none of their current offerings appeal to me as a result and at the time of writing there are no proposed/teased products that do so.

I have greedy eyes on other gear from other vendors, though I am holding to my promise not to buy any new synths until I've completed two new albums once my studio is finished.

Each to their own however. I completely understand why some folks want some Behringer gear and frankly there are banks, multinational grocery vendors and more besides who are far worse than Behringer on the ethics front in the overall scheme of things. Plagiarism and design-stealing don't come close to the sins involved in funding arms dealing and weaponising science or medicine.

I'm out of the Behringer market for the present but for very domestic reasons. I look forward to the day I can consider their offerings with a clear conscience.

[N i g e l]

But sure, yes, they are cheap. Excuses have to be found!

cheap synths at pocket money prices.
"In 5 years time" the KIDz will have leveraged cheap technology to dominate the scene with game_soundtracks & songs about non_ house_ownership_related_ debt_burden using...

[a] volca
behringer
[c] VST
[d] none of the above

?

[Arpangel]

I’m still undecided about that ARP2500 EG I bought, it’s sitting in my rack glaring at me, and I’m reluctant to continue with these modules, why? I don’t really know, exactly, it was cheap, the main reason for getting it, it’s the same every time with Behringer, my monitors, my interface, they were cheap, but they are better than their price suggests, not the case with these modules, the price is their only attraction for me, but they are copies, which goes against the grain for me, and they have virtually no resale value.
I either have to give this module to a good home, or carry on and buy more, I’m not worried about the price, but I can’t turn down a bargain, but ultimately I’m not concerned about spending more money on better stuff, and in the case of the 2500 there is no choice, only a vintage instrument, which is totally crazy, so it’s either Behringer or nothing, and this is a decision a lot of people make, regarding Behringer.
In the meantime, this guys videos crack me up, but they are genuinely useful, tell you all you need to know with no frills, very amusing too.
It comes across in no uncertain terms, these modules "are" amazing, which makes it even worse making a decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPyMb4BXAQ

[Hugh Robjohns]

It is highly unusual (in any industry) for a company to threaten to sue individual forum members for pointing out similarities in product ranges.

Plenty of companies send out 'cease and desist' letters. We just never hear about most of them. Much the same tactic, though.

It is also highly unusual (in any industry) for a company to personally and publically attack a prominent industry journalist with very questionable imagery that many people find extremely offensive.

Plenty of companies have managers that occasionally display poor judgement, too...

I'm not defending these kinds of crass, ill-judged actions in the slightest. They appall me just as much as you and those responsible should be held to account for them IMHO.

But I don't believe the 'cancel culture' is a healthy way forward for anyone. And I don't think the legitimate work of some highly talented engineers and designers making some genuinely interesting and potentially exciting products should be dismissed out of hand because of some poor management decisions.

Obviously YMMV. As I said earlier, everyone must form their own informed opinions and make their own decisions. But I can guarantee that the company won't go away just because sneering at them from the bandwagon makes anyone feel superior.

[jaypodesta]

UB-Xa on the tube today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnHxCNLRJAg

[Folderol]

Hmmm. Nice, but from the brief bit the demoed is doesn't seen exceptional.

[resistorman]

Hmmm. Nice, but from the brief bit the demoed is doesn't seen exceptional.

Well, it sounds like an eighties polysnth, which at this point is not an exceptional sound in general. My Hydrasynth can do this. The reverb they used is not doing the patches any favors either. Wonder if it's built in?