The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

[t-sun]

Because it looks very similar?

Pretty much, yeah. Why not at least come up with your own styling if you’re going to build something ‘inspired’ by someone else’s idea? The Prophet 5 and 10 are current products available to buy new today from the original manufacturer.

B……. have some talented people working for them. Surely they could cobble together a different external design. They choose not to though because they know they’ll make money based on the fact that their synth looks like the original. All of the marketing has been done for them already.

Having said all that, this sort of practise happens in lots of industries so it’s not just B……..

I sometimes wonder if it’s any different to plugin developers using the same graphics as the gear they are emulating.

Dan

To be honest, the plugin developers are much worse in this than Behrenger is.

The Prophet design is so integral to the actual functionality of the instrument and how one uses it that if they applied their own design to it, then it wouldn't actually work in a similar way and wouldn't achieve the desired results. This generation of synths tended to use off-the-shelf components (which is why Behrenger can keep churning these out, obviously) and therefore really differentiated themselves by how they were used in the design usage of the components and the implementation of the interface. If you change the interface around, you get different results because you approach it differently due to the different limitations and strengths of what was made available. I agree that it doesn't need to ape the graphic design exactly, but that's playing to the market.

Plugin interfaces, on the other hand, are completely useless affectations that often get in the way of actual programming. As far as I'm concerned, with most of them the interface is there to try to create a bridge effect that makes the user think the plugin is a more accurate emulation of a specific vintage synth, so they can sell it for a premium, instead of just being yet another synth plugin. The interface itself makes the plugin worse and more difficult to use, and serves no real purpose.

Anyway the current Sequential isn't the original Sequential, they're cashing in on the surging market as much as Behrenger.

Some extra info from FB about the Pro-16, circuitry of all 3 revisions inside!

For all of you who are technically interested, you can easily witness the incredible complexity of the PRO-16. This synth uses over 6,000 components! Not only did we employ the original circuitries of all 3 revisions, we also added many features such as 16 voices, multi-timbrality, LCD display and a lot more. We started the ideation of this project around 5 years ago and it has since grown into an incredibly powerful flagship synth.
We still need many more month to finalize the firmware, but we’re confident that it’ll be much faster than the UB-Xa.
We’re hopeful to share some sounds with you in the near future.
Are you as excited as we are?

Welp, so much for affordability then.

[The Elf]

https://www.oberheim.com/media/music-tr ... ss-release

[Eddy Deegan]

https://www.oberheim.com/media/music-tr ... ss-release

That was good to read

Much as it's clear that Behringer did the right thing here I still think it was cheeky of them at best to register the Oberheim trademark in the first place.

Still, a good thing is a good thing. I'd like to see more of it!

[Folderol]

Interesting development:
Apparently a successor to the BCR2000 is on the cards. Preview here:
https://www.juno.co.uk/junodaily/2021/0 ... sequencer/

... and this time it looks like Behringer is actually working with the designer of rather cool sequencer firmware for it..

[BillB]

Nice, indicative RRP £110, which is good as BCR2000s have been selling, or at least listed, for silly money in recent years. It also looks like a nicer-shaped box - a simpler flat rectangle. The BCR2000 is a clunky beast - I say that as an owner.

And it has a display which, although tiny, can actually tell you something more than 3 digits. It will probably make a lot of people happy and hey, they are at least cloning one of their own products!

[Drew Stephenson]

Don't care about all the sequencer stuff but as a replacement for my occasionally-dodgy BCR it's looking like a suitable price point. Hopefully there'll be a decent midi-mapping tool for it as well.

[Hugh Robjohns]

It will probably make a lot of people happy and hey, they are at least cloning one of their own products!

It looks very promising, and it should do well as the original was very useful and versatile

[The Elf]

Similarly I have zero interest in the sequencer (I wonder if Behringer have been blind-sided by a few vociferous enthusiasts in that direction?), but it should be a flexible option to suit many purposes.

I would need an overlay to remove a lot of that very confusing text!

[Drew Stephenson]

I would need an overlay to remove a lot of that very confusing text!

I was thinking i'd be making a nice textured aluminium top panel for it. I'll need to think about how i attach some wooden end cheeks as well.

[N i g e l]

Good to see the BCR back, there is nothing like it, especially at that price.
A good PC-BCR app would be appreciated too.

Similarly I have zero interest in the sequencer (I wonder if Behringer have been blind-sided by a few vociferous enthusiasts in that direction?),

I get the impression that the sequencer mod is very popular with sequencer-ists [and good for Behringer as they sold more units to an unintended sector].

[t-sun]

Considering the sequencer is already available and popular, I'd guess it was trivial to add it to the new version. Better to have it and not need it sort of thing, especially with their eurorack modules.

Sweetwater dropped me a line a few days ago letting me know that they should finally be getting the RD-9s in by the end of September/early October, if anyone needs an indication of the lag time they're dealing with these days. They were supposed to be available something like seven or eight months ago. Some people were speculating that the release was delayed so they could iron out firmware issues that were shared with the RD-8, but given allthe newsI've seen recently about gargantuan shipping delays globally my guess is that they've had them ready for a while and just haven't been able to move them around. Perhaps rather than release them piecemeal (and further frustrate customers with long shipping delays) they've been working to cover initial demand.

I picked up one of their wired headsets for work use earlier this year and it was about the same amount of time between the page going up on Sweetwater to when they actually had them in stock by the time I got it in late April, so I'll be pleasantly surprised if they manage to get some of these apparently completed projects in consumer hands by the end of the year.

[N i g e l]

Brains review.
Starts with a ramble through a tree swamp, which sets the tone for the rather talky video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-j7vR3zQno

Moog & Arp "referenced" each others designs. They opted to come to an agreement rather than spend money on lawyers & court fees.

Brains...
https://youtu.be/U59OzyB6lBM

This is getting crazy, it’s just a rip-off of Braids, but at least, that’s not made anymore!
What next?

Im not upto speed on this but I think braids/plaits are open source and are also used in the Arturia Microfreak & can be used in the Korg Prologue ???

Yes,

20 digital oscillators including 15 Mutable Instruments Plaits* engines for infinite sound creation

https://www.behringer.com/behringer/pro ... Code=P0E6H

It seems to have more models than the plaits, plus it has the waveform OLED display.

Visible Wavelengths
If having 20 digital oscillator modes wasn’t cool enough, BRAINS has an integrated and inspiring OLED display so you can visualize and adjust waveforms exactly the way you want them to be. Plus, having a screen with dancing waveforms on your synth is just plain awesome!

So it is using open source software (which is linked to on the product page) plus some extras done by them, so nothing really wrong there. Remember Arturia claimed they had worked with Mutable on the microfreak but in the end all they had used was the open source software, and Mutable rightly got a bit annoyed at that.
I also understand that this is the work of their Italian division, if that matters.

[Arpangel]

Brains review.
Starts with a ramble through a tree swamp, which sets the tone for the rather talky video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-j7vR3zQno

I’ve got a lot of Berry stuff, modules especially, but this really is too close to the knuckle for me, plus, it looks tacky, really tacky, the whole thing is like some sort of a morality test for buyers.

[Dan LB]

this really is too close to the knuckle for me, plus, it looks tacky, really tacky, the whole thing is like some sort of a morality test for buyers.

The following is a list of manufacturers I could find who make a clone of Mutable Instruments ’Plaits’:

Michigan Synth Works
CalSynth
After Later Audio
Warped Circuits
Antumbra
Tall Dog
ST Modular
Blue Lantern Modules
Oscillosaurus
Codex Modulex
Tunefish Modular

And now….. Behringer

Why is it only a problem that Behringer are making a clone?
Plaits is open source and available to anyone that wants to recreate / modify it.

My stance regarding their business practices has changed somewhat over the last few weeks. I used to hate the idea of them blatantly ripping off other people’s designs but I’ve realised that this sort of cloning is happening all over the industry and it’s not entirely fair that Behringer are the only ones taking any flak for it IMO.

Warm Audio, Black Lion Audio, Golden Age Project, Heritage Audio, BAE,
WES Audio, Summit Audio, Tube-Tech and loads more are making clones of gear that is still currently for sale by the original manufacturers. No problem there though… a lot of them even advertise in the pages of SOS.

I wonder if MusicTribe had branded the 1176 clone as Behringer rather than KT would there have been more outrage?

Loads of plugin manufacturers are cloning, or maybe more accurately emulating, but still using familiar GUI layouts that are unmistakable.

A company called Cyclone Analogic have been making clones of old Roland gear (TB303 and TR606) for years. Creamware and Studio Electronics made Minimoog clones. The list is endless.

It’s rampant, mostly legal as far as I can tell and it’s not just Behringer doing it.

[Arpangel]

The following is a list of manufacturers I could find who make a clone of Mutable Instruments ’Plaits’:

Michigan Synth Works
CalSynth
After Later Audio
Warped Circuits
Antumbra
Tall Dog
ST Modular
Blue Lantern Modules
Oscillosaurus
Codex Modulex
Tunefish Modular

That’s true, you’ve got a point there, I suppose it’s got a lot to do with the tacky appearance, AFAIC, it just doesn’t look classy at all.

[Dan LB]

it just doesn’t look classy at all.

Agreed! It looks terrible

[Folderol]

Personally, provided a piece of kit does what I want, the crappier it looks the better as far as I'm concerned.
Firstly there's less likelihood of someone wanting to nick it, and secondly I love the look on peoples faces going from disdain to astonishment when they hear the results

[Ben Asaro]

The following is a list of manufacturers I could find who make a clone of Mutable Instruments ’Plaits’:

... with the notable exception that MI's code is open source, so what you're comparing is effectively apples and oranges.

Behringer's overall business strategy is entirely reprehensible to me, but I feel that horse has been beaten to death here and anyone posting regularly in this thread ultimately doesn't care and isn't about to change their minds if what has happened thus far with Behringer hasn't done so already.

[Dan LB]

... with the notable exception that MI's code is open source, so what you're comparing is effectively apples and oranges.

Ah right. Yes that makes sense. So is the open source nature of the code just to allow people to modify it for use with MI’s hardware only?

[Ben Asaro]

Nope, the designer made it open so whoever wants to use the code, can.