The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

Dan LB wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:34 am
t-sun wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:46 pm Because it looks very similar?

Pretty much, yeah. Why not at least come up with your own styling if you’re going to build something ‘inspired’ by someone else’s idea? The Prophet 5 and 10 are current products available to buy new today from the original manufacturer.

B……. have some talented people working for them. Surely they could cobble together a different external design. They choose not to though because they know they’ll make money based on the fact that their synth looks like the original. All of the marketing has been done for them already.

Having said all that, this sort of practise happens in lots of industries so it’s not just B……..

I sometimes wonder if it’s any different to plugin developers using the same graphics as the gear they are emulating.

Dan

To be honest, the plugin developers are much worse in this than Behrenger is.

The Prophet design is so integral to the actual functionality of the instrument and how one uses it that if they applied their own design to it, then it wouldn't actually work in a similar way and wouldn't achieve the desired results. This generation of synths tended to use off-the-shelf components (which is why Behrenger can keep churning these out, obviously) and therefore really differentiated themselves by how they were used in the design usage of the components and the implementation of the interface. If you change the interface around, you get different results because you approach it differently due to the different limitations and strengths of what was made available. I agree that it doesn't need to ape the graphic design exactly, but that's playing to the market.

Plugin interfaces, on the other hand, are completely useless affectations that often get in the way of actual programming. As far as I'm concerned, with most of them the interface is there to try to create a bridge effect that makes the user think the plugin is a more accurate emulation of a specific vintage synth, so they can sell it for a premium, instead of just being yet another synth plugin. The interface itself makes the plugin worse and more difficult to use, and serves no real purpose.

Anyway the current Sequential isn't the original Sequential, they're cashing in on the surging market as much as Behrenger.

DGL. wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:05 pm Some extra info from FB about the Pro-16, circuitry of all 3 revisions inside!
Behringer FB wrote:For all of you who are technically interested, you can easily witness the incredible complexity of the PRO-16. This synth uses over 6,000 components! Not only did we employ the original circuitries of all 3 revisions, we also added many features such as 16 voices, multi-timbrality, LCD display and a lot more. We started the ideation of this project around 5 years ago and it has since grown into an incredibly powerful flagship synth.
We still need many more month to finalize the firmware, but we’re confident that it’ll be much faster than the UB-Xa.
We’re hopeful to share some sounds with you in the near future.
Are you as excited as we are?


Welp, so much for affordability then.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Eddy Deegan »


That was good to read :thumbup:

Much as it's clear that Behringer did the right thing here I still think it was cheeky of them at best to register the Oberheim trademark in the first place.

Still, a good thing is a good thing. I'd like to see more of it!
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Folderol »

Interesting development:
Apparently a successor to the BCR2000 is on the cards. Preview here:
https://www.juno.co.uk/junodaily/2021/0 ... sequencer/

... and this time it looks like Behringer is actually working with the designer of rather cool sequencer firmware for it..
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by BillB »

Nice, indicative RRP £110, which is good as BCR2000s have been selling, or at least listed, for silly money in recent years. It also looks like a nicer-shaped box - a simpler flat rectangle. The BCR2000 is a clunky beast - I say that as an owner.

And it has a display which, although tiny, can actually tell you something more than 3 digits. It will probably make a lot of people happy and hey, they are at least cloning one of their own products!
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Don't care about all the sequencer stuff but as a replacement for my occasionally-dodgy BCR it's looking like a suitable price point. Hopefully there'll be a decent midi-mapping tool for it as well.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

BillB wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:28 pmIt will probably make a lot of people happy and hey, they are at least cloning one of their own products!

:lol: It looks very promising, and it should do well as the original was very useful and versatile
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

Similarly I have zero interest in the sequencer (I wonder if Behringer have been blind-sided by a few vociferous enthusiasts in that direction?), but it should be a flexible option to suit many purposes.

I would need an overlay to remove a lot of that very confusing text!
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Drew Stephenson »

The Elf wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:46 pm I would need an overlay to remove a lot of that very confusing text!

I was thinking i'd be making a nice textured aluminium top panel for it. I'll need to think about how i attach some wooden end cheeks as well. ;)
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by N i g e l »

Good to see the BCR back, there is nothing like it, especially at that price.
A good PC-BCR app would be appreciated too.

The Elf wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:46 pm Similarly I have zero interest in the sequencer (I wonder if Behringer have been blind-sided by a few vociferous enthusiasts in that direction?),

I get the impression that the sequencer mod is very popular with sequencer-ists [and good for Behringer as they sold more units to an unintended sector].
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

Considering the sequencer is already available and popular, I'd guess it was trivial to add it to the new version. Better to have it and not need it sort of thing, especially with their eurorack modules.

Sweetwater dropped me a line a few days ago letting me know that they should finally be getting the RD-9s in by the end of September/early October, if anyone needs an indication of the lag time they're dealing with these days. They were supposed to be available something like seven or eight months ago. Some people were speculating that the release was delayed so they could iron out firmware issues that were shared with the RD-8, but given allthe newsI've seen recently about gargantuan shipping delays globally my guess is that they've had them ready for a while and just haven't been able to move them around. Perhaps rather than release them piecemeal (and further frustrate customers with long shipping delays) they've been working to cover initial demand.

I picked up one of their wired headsets for work use earlier this year and it was about the same amount of time between the page going up on Sweetwater to when they actually had them in stock by the time I got it in late April, so I'll be pleasantly surprised if they manage to get some of these apparently completed projects in consumer hands by the end of the year.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by N i g e l »

Brains review.
Starts with a ramble through a tree swamp, which sets the tone for the rather talky video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-j7vR3zQno

Image

DGL. wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:11 pm
N i g e l wrote:Moog & Arp "referenced" each others designs. They opted to come to an agreement rather than spend money on lawyers & court fees.

Arpangel wrote:
The Elf wrote:Brains...
https://youtu.be/U59OzyB6lBM

This is getting crazy, it’s just a rip-off of Braids, but at least, that’s not made anymore!
What next?

:crazy:

Im not upto speed on this but I think braids/plaits are open source and are also used in the Arturia Microfreak & can be used in the Korg Prologue ???

Yes,
Behringer.com wrote:20 digital oscillators including 15 Mutable Instruments Plaits* engines for infinite sound creation

https://www.behringer.com/behringer/pro ... Code=P0E6H

It seems to have more models than the plaits, plus it has the waveform OLED display.

Behringer.com wrote:Visible Wavelengths
If having 20 digital oscillator modes wasn’t cool enough, BRAINS has an integrated and inspiring OLED display so you can visualize and adjust waveforms exactly the way you want them to be. Plus, having a screen with dancing waveforms on your synth is just plain awesome!

So it is using open source software (which is linked to on the product page) plus some extras done by them, so nothing really wrong there. Remember Arturia claimed they had worked with Mutable on the microfreak but in the end all they had used was the open source software, and Mutable rightly got a bit annoyed at that.
I also understand that this is the work of their Italian division, if that matters.

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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

N i g e l wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:23 pm Brains review.
Starts with a ramble through a tree swamp, which sets the tone for the rather talky video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-j7vR3zQno

Image

I’ve got a lot of Berry stuff, modules especially, but this really is too close to the knuckle for me, plus, it looks tacky, really tacky, the whole thing is like some sort of a morality test for buyers.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Dan LB »

Arpangel wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:33 am this really is too close to the knuckle for me, plus, it looks tacky, really tacky, the whole thing is like some sort of a morality test for buyers.


The following is a list of manufacturers I could find who make a clone of Mutable Instruments ’Plaits’:

Michigan Synth Works
CalSynth
After Later Audio
Warped Circuits
Antumbra
Tall Dog
ST Modular
Blue Lantern Modules
Oscillosaurus
Codex Modulex
Tunefish Modular

And now….. Behringer

Why is it only a problem that Behringer are making a clone?
Plaits is open source and available to anyone that wants to recreate / modify it.

My stance regarding their business practices has changed somewhat over the last few weeks. I used to hate the idea of them blatantly ripping off other people’s designs but I’ve realised that this sort of cloning is happening all over the industry and it’s not entirely fair that Behringer are the only ones taking any flak for it IMO.

Warm Audio, Black Lion Audio, Golden Age Project, Heritage Audio, BAE,
WES Audio, Summit Audio, Tube-Tech and loads more are making clones of gear that is still currently for sale by the original manufacturers. No problem there though… a lot of them even advertise in the pages of SOS.

I wonder if MusicTribe had branded the 1176 clone as Behringer rather than KT would there have been more outrage?

Loads of plugin manufacturers are cloning, or maybe more accurately emulating, but still using familiar GUI layouts that are unmistakable.

A company called Cyclone Analogic have been making clones of old Roland gear (TB303 and TR606) for years. Creamware and Studio Electronics made Minimoog clones. The list is endless.

It’s rampant, mostly legal as far as I can tell and it’s not just Behringer doing it.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Arpangel »

Dan LB wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:07 pm The following is a list of manufacturers I could find who make a clone of Mutable Instruments ’Plaits’:

Michigan Synth Works
CalSynth
After Later Audio
Warped Circuits
Antumbra
Tall Dog
ST Modular
Blue Lantern Modules
Oscillosaurus
Codex Modulex
Tunefish Modular

That’s true, you’ve got a point there, I suppose it’s got a lot to do with the tacky appearance, AFAIC, it just doesn’t look classy at all.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Dan LB »

Arpangel wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:13 am it just doesn’t look classy at all.

Agreed! It looks terrible :lol:
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Folderol »

Personally, provided a piece of kit does what I want, the crappier it looks the better as far as I'm concerned.
Firstly there's less likelihood of someone wanting to nick it, and secondly I love the look on peoples faces going from disdain to astonishment when they hear the results :lol:
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Ben Asaro »

Dan LB wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:07 pm The following is a list of manufacturers I could find who make a clone of Mutable Instruments ’Plaits’:

... with the notable exception that MI's code is open source, so what you're comparing is effectively apples and oranges.

Behringer's overall business strategy is entirely reprehensible to me, but I feel that horse has been beaten to death here and anyone posting regularly in this thread ultimately doesn't care and isn't about to change their minds if what has happened thus far with Behringer hasn't done so already.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Dan LB »

Ben Asaro wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:32 pm
... with the notable exception that MI's code is open source, so what you're comparing is effectively apples and oranges.

Ah right. Yes that makes sense. So is the open source nature of the code just to allow people to modify it for use with MI’s hardware only?
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Ben Asaro »

Nope, the designer made it open so whoever wants to use the code, can.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Dan LB »

Ok Ben, I think either I have misunderstood you or vice versa. :)
I mentioned in my first post that Plaits is open source. What is it about my comparison that makes it apples to oranges? Genuinely confused :headbang:
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

Looks like the RD-9 may not actually arrive this year at all at this point, there's been another delay. Didn't they post pictures of boxes of the things a few months ago? I wonder if they're sitting on a container ship that can't be unloaded because of the backlog.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Eddy Deegan »

When it comes to music tech hardware, you're not alone. I pre-ordered a newly announced synth more than 2 months ago, as soon as it became possible to do so. Originally delivery was expected at some point in the last week but subsequent to an update from the supplier-to-my-vendor it's now been pushed back to mid November.

Disappointing but there are more important things in life to worry about and in a year or two I'll hardly remember the delay occurred at all :angel:
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

I suspect Eddy and me are on the same waiting list for one device! ;)

I've also been waiting for another two pre-orders, one for at least 18 months (I've forgotten when I made the order TBH!), the other for six months-ish. It's a strange world we now live in.

But I can live with it. When they arrive they'll be nice surprises. :lol:
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by BigRedX »

Which is why I have stopped buying things that aren't actually in stock and ready send out or for me to take home.

At the moment if I'm in the market for something it's because I need it NOW. If it's not available now, it doesn't matter how potentially brilliant it is likely to be I'll have to look for an alternative that is available now even if it might not be quite so good.

I'll consider "upgrading" when the item I originally want is finally available to buy but by that time I may have become too used to the item I originally bought to be bother to change it (or I might have discovered things on it that suit me perfectly and have no desire to change anyway).
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Eddy Deegan »

The Elf wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:26 pm I suspect Eddy and me are on the same waiting list for one device! ;)

I have a hunch you're right ;-)

Ahh well, at least there are other things to play with weil weiling away the time!
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by Red Noise »

Is it just me, or do the bosses of Behringer do a lot of promise-y stuff, about future products ?

I swear I saw a Facebook post about their proposed design of a CR78 clone a few years ago, which never came to pass.

Anyway, Behringer products are low cost and often poor build quality, imho.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

Red Noise wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:54 am Anyway, Behringer products are low cost and often poor build quality, imho.

Often, but not always - and in recent times, not even so often.

Try the X range of mixers (largely based on Midas technolgy), or the VC-340, which is very well built.

I'm no Behringer-phile, but credit where it is due - they make some decent stuff nowadays.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by t-sun »

I remember the CR-78 clone, I also remember wondering why on earth they'd bother. The sound was only slightly different from the 808 and since they're doing a V2 of that with their new chip I assume they realized there was no point in a CR-78 clone.

Behringer has definitely got a problem with announcing new products way too early with huge lead times to production, much less shipping. I've had my preorder for the RD-9 in since March, and at this point I'm not expecting to get it until next year. Sure, there is a massive global shipping crisis right now, but it wouldn't feel like that big of a delay if I hadn't been waiting on it for literally years now already.

As far as the build quality goes, I have the MS-1, TB-3, Wasp, Pro-1 and RD-8 and have zero complaints about any of them, particularly the metal cases on the last three. Having owned an SH-101, the MS-1 is definitely more solid, as you'd hope a modern build would be. Only problem I've had is that Berhinger removed an RD-8 firmware update from their site that is required to apply the later updates, and I haven't been able to find it so I think mine is stuck on 1.37 or something for the time being.
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Re: The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

Post by The Elf »

t-sun wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:35 pm I remember the CR-78 clone, I also remember wondering why on earth they'd bother. The sound was only slightly different from the 808...

The CR-78 sounds nothing like the 808! Listen to any of the sounds - they're very different. And the CR-78's quirky guiro, metal and gorgeous tambourine - not on the 808!

I have a TR-8S and the sounds I miss most from it are the CR-78, so I've added my own samples. I really wish that Roland had seen fit to add the CR-78 as modelled sounds to the TR-8/TR-8S. Yet they chose to give us the tiresome TR-707/727... sigh. :frown::headbang:
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