CS70 wrote:It's not about the ownership of the physical support (obviously you don't have a cd when you stream) but of the information. DC is talking about the information..
I know. It was an example to keep things simple (trying to tackle every facet means a lot of typing). But really, I'm talking about my information - the digital information in my manually curated iTunes library - much of it of course came from CD's, some from downloads, some of it my own content etc.
CS70 wrote: You have a legal licensing contract that entitles you to access that information.
Not if the large corporation somehow decides they want to change their T&C's (pretty much always in their favour, and to make sure they retain as much control as possible). As a consumer, you basically have three options in this scenario - agree to the new terms, disagree and no longer use the service, or fight them legally (which is basically more or less impossible unless you have bottomless bank account.)
CS70 wrote:Spotify cannot arbitrarily deny or change that access without your consent.
I'm pretty sure that all these companies have clauses in their agreements that they can change, withdraw, or terminate user accounts for more or less any reason they deem justifiable.
CS70 wrote:When you subscribe, there is a formal, legally enforceable agreement between two parties. This is no different than any other service. You use electricity to run your CD player and that electricity is delivered to you via a service contract - you still own the electricity you use, in the sense that it's physically there to run your laser. You don't own the support platform (well, only a small part of it, the termination cabling, just like your terminator - the phone).
I understand this. Have you ever read reports of people using online accounts from various companies that have been shut off - sometimes for no understandable reason - and you can't speak to anyone about it? Google, Amazon, Apple, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, plenty more. Apple have terminated (paid) developer accounts for no reason, shutting off business owners from their markets and their revenue streams. YouTube arbitrarily take down or demonetise people's personal content because a Moog filter sweep they made on a video while performing happens to be automatically filed as a copyright complaint because some algorithm matched it to a similar sounding Moog filter sweep on a record.
These account suspensions, terminations, etc for these kinds of services *happen all the time* and the user, regardless of whatever contract terms they think they have, is almost always *powerless* to do much about it.
If you're on, say, a free Spotify tier, I'm pretty sure that Spotify can suspend your account if they want to, and you don't really have much rights or say in the matter. Or they can decide to remove the free service and require everyone to pay a subscription or go away. I'm not saying they will, but I'm saying they *can*.
CS70 wrote:Of course you're right that there's a difference: services are, by their own nature, more subject to change that physical products... and if you do not agree to a particular change, you may need to stop using that service.
Yes, I believe I covered this pretty well - I can lose access to my content because someone else controls the terms of use, and the terms of use can become onerous or very different to how it was when I signed up.
CS70 wrote:As an aside, the legal distinctions are not at all irrelevant
I didn't say they were irrelevant, I said "forget them for now", meaning I didn't want to go into a long legal debate about definitions of terms (also: not a lawyer).
CS70 wrote:On the Disney thing... I sympathize, but well, that's the challenge with not reading contracts before signing them, isn't it?
I don't think the specific contract is the point. The point I made was that in these cases, someone else is calling the shots, and I cannot depend that the media I'm enjoying now I will be able to continue to enjoy in the future, because someone else controls my access to it - unlike my own content. That's it.
CS70 wrote:As for access and ownership... owning a physical support does not mean you own the information.
I know. It's not about CD's, as I said - simple trivial example to quickly illustrate some points.
CS70 wrote:I have, for example, all the original Star Wars trilogy DVDs but no longer have any DVD player, and I'm not interested in getting one. So I don't really own Star Wars. These days I want to show the movies to my son, and I'm actually contemplating a temporary Disney subscription just to do so..
I'm not saying streaming services are bad, aren't useful, or whatever. I'm just calling out the poster above who basically equated access on a streaming service to ownership, and why this is not, as I see it, in real practical terms, the case.