Audio interface and mic for male vocals

[The Elf]

RME interfaces open the door to TotalMix = 'zero' latency monitoring.

[ef37a]

"I'm quite sensitive to latency," Good job you are not a church organist then Doveman!

Yeah, that would totally do my head in!

*AIs have improved immeasurably in the last ten years, much of it in just five. Most notably better mic pre amps, more gain less noise but drivers are much better and latency thus reduced. This improvement has gone down the foodchain to very affordable units. IF you had not already set on the BFP I would have advised you to check carefully for AI makers that develop their own drivers and get good reports for low latency. Especially in the best magazine of them all!

I'm not set on the BFP. That's why I'm revisiting this topic, to see if there's anything just as good (for my purposes, I don't actually need as many inputs as the BFP has) that's cheaper and more readily available.

Well, I cannot speak too highly of the MOTU M4. No DSP but then if you want lower cost something has to give.
Personally I would get the excellent but more cost effective M4 for now and put the rest of your budget toward truly excellent monitors. The way audio physics works you can have very accurate small monitors that have a limited low frequency response, fall off below 80Hz say and they would be first class for vocal work. To go down another octave AND keep that super faithful midband costs a LOT more money plus you need a much better room. There are in fact very few systems that can claim 30Hz to 25kHz and deliver completely natural voices under $10,000 or so.

Dave.

[Doveman]

However, as a singer who uses IEMs and wireless guitar systems live I think I'm particularly sensitive to latency issues and I've found the combination of a run of the mill Lenovo laptop and SSL2+ interface to be perfectly functional for MIDI/VSTi purposes. I use hardware monitoring by default but will do some experimenting when the opportunity arises to record something and monitor in the software.

I quite like the look of the SSL2+ and it has two headphone outputs (as does the BFP but not the Duet 3). I do like to have physical controls but most of the time I'll probably only be adjusting either the monitor or the headphone outputs, so I'm sure I'll be fine with the virtual interfaces on the other interfaces. Apart from my concerns about how the driver stability and latency compares to the BFP, the main thing that puts me off is the fact that it's bus-powered, which from reading reviews of other bus-powered interfaces appears to limit the mic gain and output levels. It also doesn't have any DSP effects, which I'll need to use when recording vocals. It is half the price of the Duet 3 and 1/3 of the price of the BFP though, so I don't expect it to match their features.

After looking at the Duet 3 again, I see that it is bus-powered but it has an option for a separate power supply via a second USB-C port, so it could be powered by a dedicated PSU if necessary. The BFP is a better device physically though, from my POV, as it has sockets built in, rather than having everything on a breakout cable, it's tilted to make the meters more visible and it has two sets of meters which are more detailed than the single set on the Duet 3.

I've seen some places with the BFP on pre-order for £650 now, so if it's a choice between that and the Duet 3 for £500, I'll just pay the extra for the BFP but if there's anything else with DSP effects for around that price or less, I'd be interested to hear about it before I pull the trigger.

A rackmount interface will probably be fine for me if there's anything suitable, as I can always use a desktop mounted pot like this to control the monitor volume if necessary. https://www.popularmechanics.com/techno ... lume-knob/

[Doveman]

RME interfaces open the door to TotalMix = 'zero' latency monitoring.

Yeah, that's a key feature for me. Duet 3's "Symphony ECS Channel Strip" appears to be similar but I don't know if it's as good as TotalMix.

[Doveman]

Well, I cannot speaker too highly of the MOTU M4. No DSP but then if you want lower cost something has to give.
Personally I would get the excellent but more cost effective M4 for now and put the rest of your budget toward truly excellent monitors. The way audio physics works you can have very accurate small monitors that have a limited low frequency response, fall off below 80Hz say and they would be first class for vocal work. To go down another octave AND keep that super faithful midband costs a LOT more money plus you need a much better room. There are in fact very few systems that can claim 30Hz to 25kHz and deliver completely natural voices under $10,000 or so.

The MOTU M4 certainly seems to be a decent interface but I do need the DSP unfortunately.

It's an interesting point that you make about getting very accurate small monitors that are excellent for vocal work, rather than getting something that covers the lower frequencies well at the expense of the midband, or spending thousands on excellent full-spectrum monitors and room treatment. It makes more sense to do what you suggest and then hire a studio with expensive speakers and room treatment to do the final mix.

Are there any particular monitors that you can recommend?

[Exalted Wombat]

hire a studio with expensive speakers and room treatment to do the final mix.

If you do this, hire an experienced engineer too!

[Doveman]

If you do this, hire an experienced engineer too!

Oh definitely. I'd just be wasting money hiring a studio without also hiring an experienced engineer who knows what he's doing!

[James Perrett]

Are there any particular monitors that you can recommend?

Personally I'd be looking at the Neumann range. I've used the KH120s a few times and found them good. The smaller KH80s are supposed to be even better in many respects and are also supposed to work well with the Neumann sub if you need more bass.

[resistorman]

Focal Alpha range are very good.

[ef37a]

Two excellent suggestions. Also, if you have a particular pro studio in mind it could be worth visiting them to see what monitors they use?

They will probably be very expensive monsters (most probably more than one brand) but if say drool inducing Genelecs you could find a smaller version that will likely have the 'house sound'.

The studio might even have a very small but good pair that they use for location work...ask.

Dave.

[Doveman]

Personally I'd be looking at the Neumann range. I've used the KH120s a few times and found them good. The smaller KH80s are supposed to be even better in many respects and are also supposed to work well with the Neumann sub if you need more bass.

Thanks, I'll check them out. The KH120s are a bit pricey at £1,200/pair but the KH80s are more affordable at £720/pair and as you say, I can always add a sub in future if I can properly utilise it in my space.

[Doveman]

Focal Alpha range are very good.

I actually added the Focal Alpha Evo 65 to my list recently after reading glowing reviews of them. At £520/pair they're £200 cheaper than the Neumann KH80s and the 6.5" woofer is bigger than the KH80s (4") and the KH120s (5.25"), but I don't mind paying the extra for the KH80s if they're noticeably better for my purposes.

It was also said that the Kali LP-6 or the JBL LSR305 are 90% as good as the Evo 65s at 20% of the cost, although that's not true anymore (if it ever was) as the LP-6s are £300/pair and the LSR305s are £240/pair.

[Doveman]

Two excellent suggestions. Also, if you have a particular pro studio in mind it could be worth visiting them to see what monitors they use?

They will probably be very expensive monsters (most probably more than one brand) but if say drool inducing Genelecs you could find a smaller version that will likely have the 'house sound'.

The studio might even have a very small but good pair that they use for location work...ask.

Dave.

Thanks, that's a good idea.

[Drew Stephenson]

When I auditioned a few things a couple of years ago the KH80 were, to my ears, the best in the price range.

[Bob Bickerton]

……….. or spending thousands on excellent full-spectrum monitors and room treatment. It makes more sense to do what you suggest and then hire a studio with expensive speakers and room treatment to do the final mix.

Are there any particular monitors that you can recommend?

I’ve been following this thread and the above reply rang alarm bells for me.

If you’re recording vocals in an untreated room you’ll have a significant problem! Room treatment really needs to be near the top of your ‘purchase list’.

At the beginning of the thread you were also looking at a vocal microphone. I don’t know if it was covered earlier, but the quality of the interface pales into insignificance relative to microphone choice and room treatment. Did you buy the Aston?

Regarding interface I’ve never had a problem with latency and it’s a good idea not to commit any effects on your (self-recorded) vocals on the way in - so probably all you need is some comfort reverb for tracking and I’d have thought most interfaces would offer that with minimal penalty.

Regarding interfaces, I’m a UAD Apollo user and, as said above, I only use reverb for monitoring. No problems there, but I do have a range of vocal mics and professionally designed room treatment. I also happily use an SSL 2 or MixPre 10 as an interface. If I was buying new I’d consider RME based on the very good comments around here, but I doubt anyone listening to my projects would notice the difference as to which interface I used! The point regarding UAD plugs-ins is worthy of repeating. I enjoy them very much, but there are now many good alternatives.

Regarding monitors I swapped out my PMC Result6 monitors for Neumann KH80s and couldn’t be happier - but of course having a treated room helps.

Bob

[Mike Stranks]

Just emphasising Bob's point, I was involved last night in a regular livestream discussion on things audio, where someone posed the question about 'what's the best thing you can buy to improve your sound?'

As expected, there were multiple opinions on this kit, or that kit, or this software, that software, but until I opined, no-one mentioned room treatment. IME getting some room treatment in place - even if not covering absolutely all the bases - is by far the best thing I've done to improve the quality of my sound.

It can be done for much less than some of the figures being discussed here and can be the base on which you then decide whether/not you need to upgrade. Buying kit (more interesting and exciting though it be) without sorting the acoustics is a recipe for wasting money - or at least potentially spending it unnecessarily

[ef37a]

There is of course a 'chicken and egg' situation here. You cannot know how good or bad* your room is until you produce some 'quality' sound in it, that is why I suggest the purchase of some really good speakers should be very high on the agenda.

I also suggest early on buying or making some proper stands for the speakers. The temptation is to balance them on a desk, always meaning to do a proper job that never gets done! I am fortunate to have two CD cabinets (in pine effect chipboard) that are 0.84mtr high, have 5, 170mm 'holes' in them for CDs and have a board about 250mm sq top and bottom. These hold my Tannoy 5As at just about ear high for the tweeters. I am sure such cabinets are still around?

*There are no good, small domestic rooms but some are REALLY bad!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HOMCOM-Adjusta ... 91&sr=8-12
That ^ sort of thing but you'd have to fit a top and bottom.

Dave.

[Mike Stranks]

There is of course a 'chicken and egg' situation here. You cannot know how good or bad* your room is until you produce some 'quality' sound in it, that is why I suggest the purchase of some really good speakers should be very high on the agenda.

IME there are very, very few good (or even acceptable) domestic rooms without some form of treatment.

Sort out the chickens... then worry about the eggs!

[ef37a]

There is of course a 'chicken and egg' situation here. You cannot know how good or bad* your room is until you produce some 'quality' sound in it, that is why I suggest the purchase of some really good speakers should be very high on the agenda.

IME there are very, very few good (or even acceptable) domestic rooms without some form of treatment.

Sort out the chickens... then worry about the eggs!

You may have misunderstood me Mike? I am saying get some first class monitors and then you have a first class sound source with which to sort the room. I am sure there are many here who can suggest/donate suitable tracks.

Dave.

[Kwackman]

I'm with Mike in the chicken/egg order.
Even a few duvets will help whether you have modest or amazing monitors.
Only an opinion- I am not a professional studio builder!