Mix review, your advice on my song "Illusion"

[worshiptuned]

Hi,
I would like to hear your thoughts on my new song.

https://soundcloud.com/user-114195034/i ... 4I0P2KYyCZ

The structure is the one of a Jazz standard, the same verse-chord progression repeated over and over again also on the guitar solo, only the end has a variation
I played all the instruments, apart the double bass, my brother played it
I am not completely satisfied of the tone of the guitar intro, some harshness that I am not able to remove, I played too strong...
I am a bit lost about the tonal balance of the mix, too much bass end?
Any weird frequency?
I dared to play a little the drums and not to rely only on patterns, are realistic? Timing issues?
Vocals too loud? The first phrase is lower than my optima vocal range, is intended as an almost spoken attack of the song
I tried my best with the pronunciation
I used the ducking and side chain techniques, compressors and gate to tame the reverbs I have learned in your podcasts, thank you!
Still too much reverb?
Any advice to improve is appreciated

Corrected link to private version - JP

[Dave B]

This track was not found. Maybe it has been removed

Are you sure you've made it public?

[Drew Stephenson]

I think maybe you've set it to private and not shared the protected link?

[worshiptuned]

I think maybe you've set it to private and not shared the protected link?

Sorry!!!! I copied the wrong link, see below!!! Thanks for the advice

[worshiptuned]

This is the good link
sorry, I cannot edit the original post, maybe someone can help to paste this in the first post

https://soundcloud.com/user-114195034/i ... 4I0P2KYyCZ

[OneWorld]

Link doesn’t appear to work, an all that jazz

[Kwackman]

Link doesn’t appear to work, an all that jazz

It (the second link) works fine here...

[worshiptuned]

Link doesn’t appear to work, an all that jazz

Yes is the second link. Again sorry, I posted the wrong link, the first worked only for me because it's a private track. I had to share the "secret link"

https://soundcloud.com/user-114195034/i ... 4I0P2KYyCZ

[Drew Stephenson]

Typing as I listen, on an old laptop with a not particularly impressive set of headphones, and really not my genre, so take all this with a pinch of salt:

Nice nylon guitar sound, but it's very wide, I'd bring that in a bit and maybe nudge it off to one side.
Bowed bass tuning could be a bit tighter on the intro.
Timing feels a little funny around 1:30, feels like it needs a bit more confidence if it's a deliberate half-step.
Nice little bass run at 2:26
Not sure if the guitar solo needs to be more aggressive in sound (to match the playing) or more mellow to match the tune.
Feels like the guitar and vocal are fighting for the same space around the three minute mark. Have a think about a bit of EQ here to give them different places in the spectrum maybe.
Vocal tuning around the 4 min mark isn't quite right to my ears - think it's the backing vocals.
These last two points probably combine to my main thinking:
Everything is centrally panned. Some of the sources are very wide, but they're all down the middle. Grab some of those supporting instruments and kick them out to the sides. This will give the lead parts more space to shine.
Which leads to my final point, the vocals, it sounds like you're holding back. Maybe you're not in an environment where you can really belt it out, but if you're going to deliver that kind of vocal line (especially competing with that guitar part) then you've really got to be going for it. I suspect that will take care of any little tuning drifts as well - and if you've got a belting performance then people are less worried about that kind of thing anyway.
One final point, you've got the intro section, then from 1 min to 4:15 it just slowly builds and builds but there' no release point in there. I'd have a think about where there are options to drop out the drums and/or bass to give it a bit more dynamics and a bit of breathing space. That'll allow your big end section to hit better as well.

Hope that doesn't come across too critical, you've got some really nice sounding parts in there with some good playing, but I think they need more space to breathe and a more confident/powerful vocal.

[Martin Walker]

Hi worshiptuned!

I found this an interesting track with lots of good aspects. Drew has already made a lot of good points above (I also love that bass run at 2:26 ), so I'll concentrate on other aspects that will hopefully prove helpful.

Drew did mention that he was listening on a not very impressive set of headphones, so since I'm listening on my main studio monitor speakers my first point would be that you could do with a little more bottom end to warm up the mix - the double bass currently sounds a little thin as a result, and the kick drum is almost non-existent.

The guitar solo beginning at 2:28 starts off REALLY nicely, but to my mind gets a little lost from around the 2:40 mark, at times clashing with the accompanying chords.

After some nice vocal harmonies from 3:46 to 3:50, sadly, to my ears these chordal clashes continue from 3:52 only really resolving themselves with that nice guitar line from 4:18, and the track sound wonderful from here to the end.

Hope you find this helpful - I suspect working a little more on the middle section of that guitar solo would help, or if you don't want to touch that, altering the backing chords so they no longer clash.

There's some lovely stuff in there, but a little more work would (IMO) greatly benefit the track overall.

Martin

[worshiptuned]

Thank you for your generous and honest feedback and the good points Blinddrew

Nice nylon guitar sound, but it's very wide,

I will narrow it a little

Nice little bass run at 2:26

my brother deserves the praise!!! He is the real musician!

Which leads to my final point, the vocals, it sounds like you're holding back. Maybe you're not in an environment where you can really belt it out

You are tooo kind!! It's not the environnment, but my modest vocal ability, I really wish I could sing like Adele or Pavarotti!!! I tuned the vocals with Melodyne essential and I see if I can do a little better. The fact I am not a native speaker adds to the lack of confidence! I am not going to record again the vocals, more confidence will need and hopefully come with time and practice

then from 1 min to 4:15 it just slowly builds and builds but there' no release point in there

good point
I will post an updated version, thanks!!!

[worshiptuned]

thanks Martin for your feedback and the encouraging words and to edit the link!!!

the double bass currently sounds a little thin as a result, and the kick drum is almost non-existent.

The kick and the bass were heavier and I mix on Yamaha HS8 and AKG k 712. But I lowered the bass end after listening the track into laptop monitors with a subwoofer and other cheap headphones.
Everything was trembling, but also other commercial tracks in these monitors do the same...It was aimed at sounding better in these monitors but it's probably not a good idea to take the final decisions on cheap monitors ? I will correct this and raise the low end

to my ears these chordal clashes continue from 3:52 only really resolving themselves

I will work on the clashing chords and trying not to make them clash with the solo, I do agree that the solo after the beginning gets a little confused
I will work and post a new mix

[worshiptuned]

new mix
https://soundcloud.com/user-114195034/i ... gUD7jtjii0

Raised the kicks 1.5 Db
Raised the vocals 2 Db
Raised the back vocals 2 Db
Narrowed the guitar in the intro
Reduced the low cut and the low end compression of the double bass, I hope is less thin
Raised the double bass of 0.5 Db
Edited the timing issue at 1.30
I added a dynamic EQ to the guitar solo, triggered by the vocal to tame some of the competing frequencies
Lowered a bit the volume of the guitar solo under the vocal part and panned it right to make space for the vocals
Narrowed and panned right the organ

Changed the organ part trying to resolve the wrong chords clashing with the rest - I am going to travel for a month after tomorrow and there is not time for a new solo, I want to finish and release it, I have tomorrow for the final adjustments. I really wouldn’t have been able to spot these things alone, there is still some dissonance but I hope now it’s better. Thanks!

[Drew Stephenson]

Sorry, busy weekend, didn't get chance to listen to this before your release.
There's still stuff I'd do differently, but I think you've got a much better mix.

[RichardT]

I like the material very much, but I think this needs a lot of work to reach the level of a finished track. If you’ve released it already, I hope my feedback helps with future tracks.

The sound is messy, you’re missing both low and high frequencies, there’s very little stereo width, and the dynamics are very flat. Generally it sounds like you’ve played the whole track through a poor quality speaker and recorded the results.

The vocals aren’t clear above the rest of the mix and tonally there is some kind of emphasis that makes them seem un-natural.

The double bass has a very boxy sound and is missing both lower and upper frequencies.

The drums have no sense of impact.

The acoustic guitar sound is very good though. I also think there is great potential in the song. I would listen to some high quality, dynamic, reference tracks alongside yours.

[Martin Walker]

...you’re missing both low and high frequencies

Hmm... I mentioned the lack of low end warmth previously, but in the details of his tweaks, worshiptuned mentioned that he'd:

"Raised the kicks 1.5 Db
Reduced the low cut and the low end compression of the double bass, I hope is less thin
Raised the double bass of 0.5 Db"

...which is not what Id have done to increase the low end warmth - that needs EQ, not level increases

Martin

[worshiptuned]

I like the material very much, but I think this needs a lot of work to reach the level of a finished track. If you’ve released it already, I hope my feedback helps with future tracks.

The sound is messy, you’re missing both low and high frequencies, there’s very little stereo width, and the dynamics are very flat. Generally it sounds like you’ve played the whole track through a poor quality speaker and recorded the results.....
I would listen to some high quality, dynamic, reference tracks alongside yours.

Thanks for your valuable opinion. I really appreciate!!! I also noticed that the high frequencies are missing. You underlined the right points. A bit difficult to swallow, but that's the reality..
I was intentioned to release it but...your comment caused me to think that is better to work more on it. I don't have my equipment and I'll be back home next month, then it will be a serious exercise of patience, I hope it will pay back

[worshiptuned]

...which is not what Id have done to increase the low end warmth - that needs EQ, not level increases
Martin

Good to know!!!

I have to work more on this as I said to Richard. But maybe it’s too much to post the update, I don’t want ask too much to the forum, you already provided a valuable feedback, thanks to all of you!!!

Filippo

[RichardT]

I like the material very much, but I think this needs a lot of work to reach the level of a finished track. If you’ve released it already, I hope my feedback helps with future tracks.

The sound is messy, you’re missing both low and high frequencies, there’s very little stereo width, and the dynamics are very flat. Generally it sounds like you’ve played the whole track through a poor quality speaker and recorded the results.....
I would listen to some high quality, dynamic, reference tracks alongside yours.

Thanks for your valuable opinion. I really appreciate!!! I also noticed that the high frequencies are missing. You underlined the right points. A bit difficult to swallow, but that's the reality.. :SOS:
I was intentioned to release it but...your comment caused me to think that is better to work more on it. I don't have my equipment and I'll be back home next month, then it will be a serious exercise of patience, I hope it will pay back

Hi Worshiptuned,

I wouldn’t have commented like that unless I thought the track was worth it. I really think it’s good and all those things can probably be fixed quite easily as long as the basic recordings are reasonable.

I was probably a bit more blunt than I should have been. I feel the same way about my own tracks sometimes!

I think if you move some instruments further out towards the sides to create more spatial separation it will start to increase the clarity in itself. And maybe create a bit more separation between the vocal tracks.

I’m wondering if you might benefit from adding in some sampled drums too...

[RichardT]

...which is not what Id have done to increase the low end warmth - that needs EQ, not level increases
Martin

Good to know!!!

I have to work more on this as I said to Richard. But maybe it’s too much to post the update, I don’t want ask too much to the forum, you already provided a valuable feedback, thanks to all of you!!!

Filippo

You’re very welcome to post as many versions as you want!

[Drew Stephenson]

You’re very welcome to post as many versions as you want!

Yep, people won't always have time to listen, but things posted in good faith will always be welcome. I've had enormous amounts of help from the people on this forum by doing that. We don't tend to have much patience for spammers but where someone's clearly working through a problem or developing a song you'll generally find plenty of help.

[worshiptuned]

You’re very welcome to post as many versions as you want!

Yep, people won't always have time to listen, but things posted in good faith will always be welcome. I've had enormous amounts of help from the people on this forum by doing that. We don't tend to have much patience for spammers but where someone's clearly working through a problem or developing a song you'll generally find plenty of help.

Thank you guys, I got it!!! I will definitely take advantage!!!

[worshiptuned]

Hi Worshiptuned,

I wouldn’t have commented like that unless I thought the track was worth it. I really think it’s good and all those things can probably be fixed quite easily as long as the basic recordings are reasonable.

I was probably a bit more blunt than I should have been. I feel the same way about my own tracks sometimes!

I think if you move some instruments further out towards the sides to create more spatial separation it will start to increase the clarity in itself. And maybe create a bit more separation between the vocal tracks.

I’m wondering if you might benefit from adding in some sampled drums too...

thanks for the encouragement, these are already sampled drums...a kit of Groove Agent, it sounded nicely. I was probably able to badly EQ it and make it lifeless

[worshiptuned]

Hello!!!

It's been a while since I started this post. I'm back in my studio and have been able to work on a remix.
I took your advice and added some high frequencies, revised the levels and tried to improve the bass.
this is the new version
https://soundcloud.com/user-114195034/i ... GVe6XDiQqW
which you can compare with the old one
https://soundcloud.com/user-114195034/i ... gUD7jtjii0

Is there any improvement or has it become too harsh now? - I think I have a bit exaggerated also with the loudness (war )