Help to write notes for revision on a testmix

[Larphi]

Hi,
Me and my band, we are looking for a sound engineer to mix / master our EP.
At the moment, we are working on a test track with a Dutch sound engineer, specializing in extreme metal. He has already did a first mix, on which we must write notes for revision.
I humbly admit that we don't necessarily have the knowledge necessary to objectively analyze his work. I am therefore looking for voluntary and interested ears, able to tell us what are really the essential points to review - regardless of the quality of the music
Thank you in advance !

[Dave B]

There are a lot of folks round here who can help to a certain degree, but I do feel that you are fundamentally asking the wrong question.

If you ask any 10 musicians for an opinion, then you will often get 10 opinions which can be quite different as each will have preferences for music, mix, arrangement, etc. So, by all means, post the track up and ask for a critique and you'll get comments.

BUT

I do think that the opinion that matters most is yours. Your band need to sit and listen to the mix on a variety of systems - big speakers, small speakers, earbuds, cars, etc - and decide what they do and don't like about the mix. Are the drums too loud? The snare too boxy? or too sharp and cutting? Is the bass a little light? Or too loud, or too boomy? Are the vocals cutting through all the time? etc etc

Once you guys (who are paying for this remember - it's _your_ thing) have some points of concern, we can help out with some different perspective, or help you word the feedback better so that the mix engineer understands you better. That might be a better way to do this.

[Drew Stephenson]

Yep, what Dave said ^^^!
I've taken advantage of the good people of this forum several times asking for feedback on mixes, and whilst it's always useful, it's never consistent!

[Larphi]

OK, thank you !
I will post the track up, in another post.
With our feelings, and some productions we like, for comparaison.

[Drew Stephenson]

Good plan, but I'd add the link to this post so that all the conversation is in one place.

[James Perrett]

I'd add that you shouldn't have the same person mix AND master a track. Any problems in mixing may well be compounded in the mastering. Always use a separate engineer to master your work once all the tracks have been mixed so that the album or EP can be mastered as a whole.

[Larphi]

OK, so here is the testmix :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C93zsf ... sp=sharing

Some examples of productions we like :
https://youtu.be/t-72e3i4bZY
https://uniqueleaderrecords.bandcamp.co ... e-violence
https://earthrot.com.au/
https://descent-au.bandcamp.com/album/d ... randiosity

Here are our first general feelings :
- the mix is too loud (the max is at 0db)
- the mix seems too bassy and there is a lack of medium. Like a "V" equalisation. Or maybe the trebles should be accentuated (?).
- the mix needs more clarity
- the bass drops are very loud, so "crush" the dynamic of the song
- the drums (snare especially) are perhaps a bit too loud

BTW, we like the mix

Thank you for your help !

[Drew Stephenson]

It's a million miles away from my usual genre but I'd broadly agree with your analysis other than the drums bit - they don't seem hugely out of whack with your references.
What does seem a bit off to me is that the sides signal seems to be very high-passed and that's making the guitars a little too light-weight for me. I'd be inclined to let a bit more bottom end through there and dial a bit more off the bottom end in the mid channel.

[Larphi]

OK, thank you for your feedback.
If I clearly understand, the balance between guitars and mainly the bass must be adjusted for the bottom end, right ?
One another point to figure is the mix seems a bit "artificial", or not really "organic". I don't really know where it come from.

Important : the mix is not yet mastered.

[James Perrett]

Here are our first general feelings :
- the mix is too loud (the max is at 0db)
- the mix seems too bassy and there is a lack of medium. Like a "V" equalisation. Or maybe the trebles should be accentuated (?).
- the mix needs more clarity
- the bass drops are very loud, so "crush" the dynamic of the song
- the drums (snare especially) are perhaps a bit too loud

I've only had a quick listen and haven't checked the file on a meter or DAW...

If there's no clipping and no limiting then having the max at 0dBFS isn't a problem at this stage. The mixer has probably normalised it deliberately to stop you from complaining that it isn't loud enough.

To me, it didn't sound too bassy (but the system I was listening on doesn't do real low bass). If anything I would say that there was a bit of a low mid build-up but it wasn't to serious.

I'd agree that there could be more clarity but only on certain instruments like cymbals.

Personally I found the snare too quiet but, to me, the kick was too loud or maybe too harsh.

I would add that I'm not an expert on this genre although I have been involved in mixing similar styles many years ago when things were possibly less technical than today. I also don't know what the original tracks sound like.

[Larphi]

One complaint is the mix is over-compressed, so there is no more dynamic : the sound space is very small, with a feeling of muddiness, or lack of clarity.
The mix seems to be "pre-masterised".
It could be a good thing to have the "raw" mix, without no mastering at all.

[James Perrett]

Having downloaded it and checked it in Reaper I'd agree that the level is too high for a mix - there has been some attempt at mastering which has possibly caused more problems than it fixes. As I said above, get someone else to do the mastering - there's more to mastering than cranking up the volume.

The bass also sounds a bit wayward level wise and seems to be taking up more sonic space than it could.

[Larphi]

Sorry, but I don't really understand why it is important to get someone else to do the mastering.

[James Perrett]

With mastering you want someone who is separate from the project who can listen with a fresh ear. You also want someone who understands what sounds good on your chosen release format/formats.

When you ask someone to mix a record, you expect them to come up with the best sound that they can. How can you then expect the same person to improve the sound at the mastering stage if they've already created the best possible sound?

[BJG145]

...as James says, it's usual practice to get someone else to master it. Partly because they come to it with a fresh perspective and can act as an objective counter-balance, and partly because mixing and mastering require different expertise to some extent.

Having said that, you shouldn't expect mastering to radically change the sound or fix mix-stage problems.

[Larphi]

Hey !
Here is th V2 :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r_Onse ... sp=sharing

Without effect on the master channel ^^

Less loud ! No more saturation and the bass drops go much better!
I find the balance between the instruments not bad, the mix seems ​​clearer.

On the other hand, I have the impression that the trebbles have increased quite a bit. And to my ear, it's more "aggressive" and a bit tiring to listen to.
The middles also increased a little, and the bass decreased very little.

Basically, compared to the initial mix, I would have lowered the bass, increased the middles and left the trebbles as they are. As it stands, I find the V2 still unbalanced.

[James Perrett]

The second one seems better to me. There's less distortion and the kick and snare are better balanced. The sound feels a bit more open and less fatiguing to my ears. It also gives the mastering engineer something better to work from.

[RichardT]

Ouch! That’s fierce - but it may be genre-appropriate.

[Larphi]

Thank you for your feedback!

Ouch! That’s fierce - but it may be genre-appropriate.

What do yo mean by "fierce"?

[RichardT]

Thank you for your feedback!

Ouch! That’s fierce - but it may be genre-appropriate.

What do yo mean by "fierce"?

Lots of sharp high frequencies.

[Drew Stephenson]

On the other hand, I have the impression that the trebbles have increased quite a bit. And to my ear, it's more "aggressive" and a bit tiring to listen to.

There is a lot of energy in the octaves either side of 4k. Looking at an analyser there's a lot more than I usually see, but as stated before, that's not my genre.
It's a bit overdone to me and my instinct is to tame that region with a broad EQ cut.
It also seems a little bit light in the real bottom end, but I'm a sucker for overdoing the bass so maybe ignore me on that one!

[Larphi]

Here is the V3 !
- with vocals :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s1raXz ... sp=sharing

- without vocals :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/117XK36 ... sp=sharing

It's much more balanced, the highs are less aggressive.

On the other hand, the level is always loud, because it reaches 0 db sometimes.

But for the instrument part, I think we are really in the right direction.

On the other hand, we find that the vocals sound weird, as if they were emptied of a bit of their substance. It's pretty hard to describe.

[Larphi]

Here is the V5 :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-AP0bn ... p=drivesdk

I think it will be the final mix.
What do you think?