The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

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The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by merseymale »

Hi!

Not sure if this is the right forum for this question but here goes!

I’m in a much smaller and more modest situation, these days but I really liked recording live drums to my productions.

I feel I am quite experienced at recording on various mediums and yet I now find myself suddenly clueless of an important fundamental…

I’m alright at adding Hi-Hats & percussion, etc & still enjoy playing “kit Drums” and I do this by using Piezos to record clicks/pulses for my Kick & Snare on separate Channels of my zoom multitracker & then connect the output of these to the Trigger Inputs of an Alesis DM10 ‘drum brain’ & record the output of that back into the Zoom at the same time on separate channels So that I can record over the original pulse/clicks and eventually put the whole thing into a DAW on my PC

This is all well and good but it is finicky and I can’t help thinking that there is a better way of doing it but WHAT? :headbang:

I’m stuck with the sounds that are on the Alesis & also with its erratic triggering with this convoluted set up and I’m keen to streamline all this without much expense…

Has anyone any opinions or advice, please?
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by forumuser931182 »

Can’t you just record the live midi out from the Alesis straight to your daw then use any software drum module to create the sounds.
Also doesn’t the Alesis have the ability to load new drum samples ( if you’re sick of the current sounds ).
Maybe you need to get some slightly more professional drum triggers if you’re finding your homemade ones a bit erratic.
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by N i g e l »

Could you go straight to DAW & use a drum replacement VST ?
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by BJG145 »

^^^

1) You have piezos to record triggers for kick and snare. Are these proper drum triggers, or just a simple DIY approach...? You say that the triggering is erratic. I'd prefer a proper pad and kick trigger myself.

2) It sounds like you're recording the trigger pulses on a Zoom, then playing them back into the Alesis and recording the drum output of that back into the Zoom, then copying that into the DAW. Why not simply run the triggers into the Alesis, connect the Alesis into the DAW via MIDI, and record a MIDI track live, directly...? You might want to monitor from the audio output on the Alesis for zero latency, but once the MIDI is in the DAW there's a wealth of great drum sounds available from different sample libraries.
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by merseymale »

forumuser931182 wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:44 am Can’t you just record the live midi out from the Alesis straight to your daw then use any software drum module to create the sounds.
Also doesn’t the Alesis have the ability to load new drum samples ( if you’re sick of the current sounds ).
Maybe you need to get some slightly more professional drum triggers if you’re finding your homemade ones a bit erratic.

I’m afraid I don’t know how to record “live MIDI out”(pitiful I know!!) & also that would mean not using the Zoom L12 which would mean a bigger upheaval in my hovel(:oops:)moving drums to PC or Vice Versa

The Alesis is stuck with the samples it has, alas.
… They are good samples I have to admit but also with the triggering shenanigans I still want to use something a bit different somehow

Thanks For your comments though
I do appreciate them
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by merseymale »

N i g e l wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:14 am Could you go straight to DAW & use a drum replacement VST ?

Not sure how & also it would involve moving drums &/or PC (&concern neighbours..?)

Thanks for your thoughts, though :thumbup:
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by merseymale »

BJG145 wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:50 am ^^^
“You have piezos to record triggers for kick and snare. Are these proper drum triggers, or just a simple DIY approach...?”
They are somewhat professional but HAVE been repaired
They’re not so much erratic as in ‘sometimes triggering sometimes not’ or mistriggering or whatever it’s more a case of afterwards some samples are way louder than others/sometimes they follow dynamics and sometimes not and I have to ‘repair’ these in my DAW
Doable but a pain!

“sounds like you're recording the trigger pulses on a Zoom, then playing them back into the Alesis and recording the drum output of that back into the Zoom, then copying that into the DAW”
That’s exactly right

“Why not simply run the triggers into the Alesis, connect the Alesis into the DAW via MIDI, and record a MIDI track live, directly...?”
There are a few reasons. Firstly I have the percussion etc in an attic-space And have been at great pains to “soundproof” this so as not to annoy others (I’m in a new situation)And it’s more convenient to ferry a small zoom L20 between my music location and my PC.

Also I’ve not been able to connect the zoom via USB …previously I have Stuck with an Akai DPS But swapped it for the zoom and a lot of my experience is kind of “oldschool”! :roll:

“…once the MIDI is in the DAW there's a wealth of great drum sounds available from different sample libraries”
I suppose I need to get my ‘head round’ MIDI!!

Is there any tuition video or anything with a explain midi in a door and how to use sample libraries? My experience of sample libraries has been basically a CD of individual ‘hits’ but how those bits get grafted ont MIDI data is a bit beyond me…

I suppose I’ve learned what I do by recording of the bands and when a new situation/problem rises its head I deal with it there and then and learn from that during and afterwards and it’s just I’ve never had anyone really come up and asked me to record anything with MIDI before.

As for my own stuff, I don’t have the cash/space to use a drum kit & so went with what I still have at hand -namely what I’ve been using to keep my drum chops up (practice pads)& Cymbals and snares

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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by merseymale »

It’s really encouraging to find people leaving Advice for my question and I thank you all again

But I suppose the question I’m trying to ask is “how can I take the clicks and pulses that I recorded while performing with Acoustic Cymbals, etc into the DAW, along with the ‘real’ instruments & turn those clicks & pops into MIDI data?”
Once I know how to do that (I am assuming the first part of that question is that I record them and put them into the DAW Just like I’ve always done with the other elements) the final question I have to ask is “ how do I turn midi data into Drum Samples or VSTi or whatever..?”
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by blinddrew »

Not sure if you've mentioned what DAW you're on, in essence:
1) figure out how to get midi out from your Alesis, either as a live stream to connect to a midi in on your interface, or as a recorded midi file (is that possible?)
2) connect the midi out on the alesis to midi in on your interface (or import the recorded midi file).
3) create a new midi track in your daw and set that to point at the midi input on your interface.
4) hit record and play your thing (or load the recorded midi file to this track).
5) insert a drum VSTi into the first plugin slot for that channel. Manda Powerdrummer is a good free/donationware option.
6) profit!
Sorry wrong meme.
6) listen to what comes back.
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by merseymale »

blinddrew wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:20 pm Not sure if you've mentioned what DAW you're on, in essence:
1) figure out how to get midi out from your Alesis, either as a live stream to connect to a midi in on your interface, or as a recorded midi file (is that possible?)
2) connect the midi out on the alesis to midi in on your interface (or import the recorded midi file).
3) create a new midi track in your daw and set that to point at the midi input on your interface.
4) hit record and play your thing (or load the recorded midi file to this track).
5) insert a drum VSTi into the first plugin slot for that channel. Manda Powerdrummer is a good free/donationware option.
6) profit!
Sorry wrong meme.
6) listen to what comes back.

Thanks for taking the time to do this but just some thoughts I’d like to add, if that’s okay…

0) REAPER by CockOs
1) I understand this but once I do find out how to do that then I am either dragging a PC into my attic (and associated paraphernalia like monitor) or dragging down acoustic percussion to my PC and annoying the neighbours… The set up I have described previously has been to avoid both those problems but it’s the associated “teething troubles“ that I’m trying to sort out (and learn some much needed midi basics while I’m at it?!)
2) :think:
3) a Good Friend (thanx Pinky!) sent me this link:

https://youtu.be/G8D2jEhbN7Y

…it Certainly seems like this would be the right track and I’m going to try it as a solution to my problem but assuming that I manage to generate MIDI data from the clicks and pops I record onto an audio channel, does anyone have any advice/info/videolink describing how to utilise a drum library rather than a organ sound, as in the video, please? :SOS:
4) :thumbup:
5)now THIS is where I’m seriously deficient!
I’ve learnt my, a-hem, ‘craft’ :crazy: by recording local bands over the decades and when I knew problem arose I would deal with it “on the fly“ and later research it for next time and simply put no one has ever come to me with any midi situation or sample situation (Liverpool is a bit of a rock town I suppose :lol:) so I’m really at a loss…
6) :clap:
:angel:
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by BJG145 »

Do you have an audio interface, and if so, what kind is it...?

The first thing you need is some way of getting MIDI data into your PC. This could be via MIDI connectors on an audio interface, a dedicated MIDI interface, or a MIDI/USB cable.

If you want to keep your drums and computer separate, there are various options. Maybe you could rig up a long MIDI connection or capture the MIDI data on a different device you might have. I don't think anyone would recommend recording the triggers as audio though.

PS forget audio-to-MIDI conversion for now, it's a flaky solution to a problem you don't have. ;)
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Re: The ‘RIGHT way’ to record Drum(samples!)?

Post by merseymale »

BJG145 wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:38 pm Do you have an audio interface, and if so, what kind is it...?

The first thing you need is some way of getting MIDI data into your PC. This could be via MIDI connectors on an audio interface, a dedicated MIDI interface, or a MIDI/USB cable.

If you want to keep your drums and computer separate, there are various options. Maybe you could rig up a long MIDI connection or capture the MIDI data on a different device you might have. I don't think anyone would recommend recording the triggers as audio though.

PS forget audio-to-MIDI conversion for now, it's a flaky solution to a problem you don't have. ;)

I have 2 Audiophile 24/96 SoundCards; a USB preamp by Art; an Akai DPS16 & a Zoom L12

The link I posted, above, seems to show an extensive MIDI generating facility of my DAW so I believe I could use the Audio Recording of my Pad’s clicks/triggers to generate a MIDI track but that is the extent of my knowledge

I could drill a hole in my ceding for a long enough MIDI cable(?!?!?) assuming there’ll be no timing issues but I’m still using the Zoom -which I DO understand(?) to record audio so if I’m using it anyway then do I need to record MIDI & audio separately anyhoo?
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