Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?

[Paul Nagle]

I haven't been called Dear in a while it's quite nice lol.

When I'm short of ideas I always try for nice.

[tea for two]

Dear Paul there was a Wily E Peyote studio performance, still one of my favourite Electronica studio performances, i can't seem to locate it anylonger on youtube.

Edit found it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ1D5rqvVLY

[Paul Nagle]

Dear Paul there was a Wily E Peyote studio performance, still one of my favourite Electronica studio performances, i can't seem to locate it anylonger on youtube.

Edit found it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ1D5rqvVLY

I have lots of different online identities. The hope was that people would take longer to get bored of me and my incessant gushing. Everyone's doing such great videos these days that I've sorta let it slide...

[ajay_m]

I found this a fascinating discussion and it seems like a good topic for future SOS articles, rather than discussing how something was mixed and mastered this is moving to the initial creative side. How do people set things up so that ideas can be captured and developed without technical issues getting in the way. I purchased an Akai Force with this in mind but disappointly it can currently only record around 5 minutes of audio at a time, a limitation that was never mentioned in the SOS review. I am hoping the next firmware update will address this. It's still great though, I feel like I'm on the bridge of the Enterprise with all the lights and buttons, so I can see where you're coming from with the black box as well.

[Martin Walker]

Dear Paul there was a Wily E Peyote studio performance, still one of my favourite Electronica studio performances, i can't seem to locate it anylonger on youtube.

Edit found it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ1D5rqvVLY

Ooh, I'm loving that now as well - thanks for mentioning it tea for two!

Martin

[Terrible.dee]

I don't get it.

Everyone wants a "DAW'less" set up,

But you are rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

There's no difference between the New MPCs, this "Black Box" and a Computer hosted DAW.

The old MPCs were so unique they are a musical instrument on their own, but this new stuff?.....Why bother?

Man up and get a Reel to Reel. That's the only "DAW'less" set-up that matters. Because it SOUNDS BETTER!

All these new "pro audio" products are designed to take advantage of the G.A.S epidemic, nothing more.

Waste of money and time.

[Drew Stephenson]

Alternatively there are as many different workflow preferences as there are people and people are free to spend their money however they choose.

[Sam Spoons]

I don't get it.

Everyone wants a "DAW'less" set up,

But you are rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

There's no difference between the New MPCs, this "Black Box" and a Computer hosted DAW.

The old MPCs were so unique they are a musical instrument on their own, but this new stuff?.....Why bother?

Man up and get a Reel to Reel. That's the only "DAW'less" set-up that matters. Because it SOUNDS BETTER!

All these new "pro audio" products are designed to take advantage of the G.A.S epidemic, nothing more.

Waste of money and time.

Oh dear

[Aled Hughes]

Man up and get a Reel to Reel. That's the only "DAW'less" set-up that matters. Because it SOUNDS BETTER!

No it DOESN’T!

And what’s manliness got to do with it anyway?

Digital’s been de facto for almost as long as tape was by now. Either leave your ego in past and move on, or quit the game, because all this aggressive masculine opinionated posturing is coming over as rather amateurish, pathetic and irrelevant.

[shufflebeat]

Speak for yourself, Dear, mine is 2" and sounds great.

Say what you like about the Titanic, she went down with tidy deckchairs.

[Aled Hughes]

Speak for yourself, Dear, mine is 2" and sounds great.

Mine is also 2" and sounds great, as does the 1/4". But it doesn't sound better.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Man up and get a Reel to Reel. That's the only "DAW'less" set-up that matters. Because it SOUNDS BETTER!

No it DOESN’T!

I like a chap that knows his own mind!

'Better' is such a subjective term... Tape certainly has a distinctive character, and that can be appealing in some circumstances. Personally, I was glad to see that back of tape in my professional working career, and digital is, to me, 'better' in every way.

But I do still own and occasionally use two analogue tape machines -- and I enjoy them for the legacy format that they are and the character they exude!

And what’s manliness got to do with it anyway?

Good point...

Digital’s been de facto for almost as long as tape was by now.

That's an interesting thought. Tape became practical in the very late 40s and quickly became the recording and broadcast studio norm in the early 50s. It was considered obsolete in broadcasting by the mid-90s, so that's around 45 years as the mainstream dominant format. It's still around now, of course, but only really in niche studios and silly hi-fi systems.

Digital recording has been around since the 1960s, but only really became a serious recording studio/broadcasting format in the mid-1980s, initially with things like Sony's PCM video recorders, then ADAT and R-DAT and so on, before computer-based technology made all that obsolete. So that's getting on towards 40 years now...

So yes, I think you're right. Digital has been the de facto format now for almost as long as analogue tape was.

[Aled Hughes]

I was only shouting because they did

I agree with you, I use tape machines (and software emulations), I find them fascinating, I enjoy learning about them and the techniques used. I like the way they sound in many scenarios, and I enjoy the process of using them when the circumstances and budget allow.

But when someone shouts that tape is the only way when most recorded music in history has never touched it, I can't help but fall for the bait!

[shufflebeat]

But when someone shouts that tape is the only way when most recorded music in history has never touched it...

But there's so,ooo,ooo much of it now that's not really a fair comparison.

Actually, I wonder if we may have hit on a statistical anomaly that might explain the analogue/tape myth. There is so much recorded content around these days and so much of it is, um, not very good that statistically tape sounds better than digital.

I've heard this discussed in different terms, i.e. talent vs access, but the numbers explain the visibility issue.

[BWC]

Actually, I wonder if we may have hit on a statistical anomaly that might explain the analogue/tape myth. There is so much recorded content around these days and so much of it is, um, not very good that statistically tape sounds better than digital.

Yep, there's some other typical human silliness driving it as well, but I've lost count of how many times I've seen or heard of someone chasing after the sound of some classic record or another, never realizing, that record sounds like crap, it's the performances that made it great.

[Terrible.dee]

Man up and get a Reel to Reel. That's the only "DAW'less" set-up that matters. Because it SOUNDS BETTER!

No it DOESN’T!

And what’s manliness got to do with it anyway?

Digital’s been de facto for almost as long as tape was by now. Either leave your ego in past and move on, or quit the game, because all this aggressive masculine opinionated posturing is coming over as rather amateurish, pathetic and irrelevant.

Manliness = Aggressively pursuing that which you know is right.

....haha...um...at this point you should know I really don't care what you say to/or about me. Nor will I "quit" anything because you suggest I should. So save yourself the trouble. There's nothing you can say that will affect me in the slightest.

Now...back on topic.....the amount of time "digital" has ruled the recorded music landscape is eerily similar to the timeline that tracks decline of the music industry.

So say what you want about digital. Its introduction was DEATH to the business.

You can make all the excuses you like. That statement will STILL BE TRUE...so once again....save your breath.

It is EASY to record music with a DAW.

That is why we are FLOODED with garbage music that didn't have to pass any QC gatekeepers.

When I got my first record deal, you didn't say you were "Releasing a record" unless you had convinced someone else to sink THEIR money into YOUR product.

Now.....Everyone is "Releasing a record" and consequently, that statement means NOTHING anymore.

Instead of having highly trained professionals record you onto analog tape, which is not easy (I do it myself now.) And requires that you both have good material and know how to play it.....

....Now, you slap a few loops together in Abelton, bounce it out and call it your "Record"

I call B.S.....because NO ONE is buying music anymore!!

The business has been sunk by a number of factors, but one of the most critical is that there are no "Gate keepers" You don't have to EARN your stripes in order to be heard.

Tech has made it possible for people who are too lazy to learn to actually make music....to pretend they are making music.

Consumer's can tell. They know it's B.S...so they don't buy it.

At lest that is one MAN'S perspective. (And I'll remind you discrimination works both ways, so please refrain from insulting my gender.)

Since it became the standard, the music industry has gone DOWN IN FLAMES!

[Terrible.dee]

I was only shouting because they did

I agree with you, I use tape machines (and software emulations), I find them fascinating, I enjoy learning about them and the techniques used. I like the way they sound in many scenarios, and I enjoy the process of using them when the circumstances and budget allow.

But when someone shouts that tape is the only way when most recorded music in history has never touched it, I can't help but fall for the bait!

Wait....digital has been around since the mid 80's........no WAY has "Most" music been made under that format.

It wasn't even COMMON in the mid to late 80's....some people tried it...and immediately wen't back to tape.

"Records" weren't overwhelmingly digital until the mid 2000's......and low and behold! That is when the music biz went down the toilet!

I know DAWS made it easy form everyone to say "I'm a producer, I'm an artist."

But the truth is......No, you aren't, you couldn't hang in a REAL studio.

[Waltern8tor]

Reel to reel? Luxury! when I was a lad...

[Drew Stephenson]

That's right, the internet, DVDs, home computing, video games, all becoming mainstream, and the relentless consolidation of the music labels all had no effect on the market for music entertainment.
Nope it was all because of the change of recording medium.
Also joining a conversation and saying you're not interested in what other people are saying is pretty rude. Go write a blog.

[BWC]

Also joining a conversation and saying you're not interested in what other people are saying is pretty rude. Go write a blog.

Yup, this is the point where the people, whose conversation you interrupted to shout your "TRUTH", start wandering off to regroup elsewhere, leaving you lecturing to an empty room. Enjoy yourself.