A good point, well made

[Random Guitarist]

A Helix (or Kemper etc) isn’t quite the same as having a ‘real’ amp a few feet away from you but, out front (where it matters), they certainly do the business.

Amen to this. I recently started doing a new covers band thing, the first time using a Helix. It sounds very good, and it frees up my focus for playing. With the snapshots feature I just need to select the right patch, tap the tempo on the count in if needed, and play. As sounds change through the song I have a single press to move snapshots. I can focus on what I'm playing what others are playing. Even if the tone wasn't stellar it would still be the thing to use because it frees me up to be a better player.

[Music Wolf]

A Helix (or Kemper etc) isn’t quite the same as having a ‘real’ amp a few feet away from you but, out front (where it matters), they certainly do the business.

Amen to this. I recently started doing a new covers band thing, the first time using a Helix. It sounds very good, and it frees up my focus for playing. With the snapshots feature I just need to select the right patch, tap the tempo on the count in if needed, and play. As sounds change through the song I have a single press to move snapshots. I can focus on what I'm playing what others are playing. Even if the tone wasn't stellar it would still be the thing to use because it frees me up to be a better player.

Something that I like to do with my Helix, and I used to empoly a similar technique when I gigged my Kemper, is to set up two paths and either switch between them or bring in the second path using the expresion pedal (with the Kemper I used the morph feature). Typically one path is rhythm and the other lead.

The idea is that the expression pedal is a much bigger target to aim for, as opposed to a footswitch, especially if you are covering any vocal duties.

[Drew Stephenson]

I would love to get to this point, I'm practically tap-dancing through some songs and switching between vocal mics as well.

[Music Wolf]

I would love to get to this point, I'm practically tap-dancing through some songs and switching between vocal mics as well.

There are pros and cons.

When it's all set up and working the possibilities are endless. I use my Helix as a controller for two external MIDI effects, a digital mixer and record / playback from my laptop. I select a patch from the Helix (one patch per song, so my Helix is also my set list - no more bits of paper), this pulls up the corresponding song in Cantabile software on my laptop, it selects the scene on the mixer and calls up the correct patches on the SY-300 and VoiceLive VL-2. I have footswitches set up as 'play', 'stop' and 'mute'. 'Play' starts the 'song' running in Cantabile. A couple of songs have a pre-recorded intro / count-in which starts but I also have it set to begin a multi-track recording of everything running through the PA. 'Stop' ends the recoding and 'Mute' kills the PA in case of uncontrolled feedback or at the end of a set.

Next step - controling the lighting.

Cons - Learning curve, it takes a while to 'tune' things (an amp and a couple of pedals are so much easier, especially in the beginning) and more complexity increases the risk of something going wrong.

[Drew Stephenson]

The other 'con' is the cost of the system in the first place.

[BigRedX]

The other 'con' is the cost of the system in the first place.

I spent less money on my latest bass rig - a Line6 Helix Floor and an RCF 745 powered cab (approximately £2k) than I had on the rig it replaced that was composed mainly of items bought second hand.

And when you consider the fact that I also use this rig for Bass VI and guitar, I actually came away with a profit after selling all the stuff it replaced.

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm much more of a cheapskate so that equation really wouldn't work out for me!

[merlyn]

The good point in question was whether the £1000 is better spent on gear or guitar lessons.

Or you could save yourself some money and practice.

Taking time at £30 per hour £1000 is ~33hrs practice, or 3hrs a day for 11 days.

A year's practice at 3 hrs a day is then worth £32850. (OK, take Christmas Day off -- £32820)

[Murray B]

I'm a recent convert to the Line 6 Pod Go - it's nowhere near as sophisticated as a Helix but I used it for two gigs at the same weekend festival (one on guitar and one on the bass) and I was very happy with the results, plus it was easier than travelling with and loading two amps.

It's does feel a little precarious having nearly all my eggs in one basket - despite packing a very budget plan B Sonicake multi effects pedal just in case of disaster. One RCF 710 worked well enough as both guitar and bass monitor - although I haven't yet worked out the gain staging so that there is less of a hiss. Frustratingly I have no hiss problems with a similar connection approach and my trusty old Yamaha MSR 100.

My pedal board of nearly 20 years is small collection mostly modded and fancy pedals and just nails the tone I like and has meant I've never needed anything other than a clean amp tone to sound 'right' - but it's heavy and I'm not getting any younger. in reference to the original post my band mates didn't notice a negative change to my guitar or bass tone, I can't imagine anyone in the audience wishing I'd brought a valve amp or my bass rig with me either. The drummer liked the lighty up switches. The sound man liked that my 'amp' was pointed at my ears and not firing down the venue.

[Murray B]

The good point in question was whether the £1000 is better spent on gear or guitar lessons.

Or you could save yourself some money and practice.

Taking time at £30 per hour £1000 is ~33hrs practice, or 3hrs a day for 11 days.

A year's practice at 3 hrs a day is then worth £32850. (OK, take Christmas Day off -- £32820)

Can I use this formula when negotiating my gig fees

[The Elf]

The other 'con' is the cost of the system in the first place.

You don't need the full Helix Floor to do that fancy stuff. An HX Stomp XL may suffice.

That said I find the additional switches of the Helix Floor to be helpful, especially since I have them linked to software instruments and effects too.

I also use a Morningstar MC8, which is just a bunch of MIDI control buttons in a box.

TBH all the clever stuff is happening in Cantabile.

[Sam Spoons]

I bought a Headrush Gigboard at the beginning of lockdown last year. I like it a lot but I can't say I've got it to sound as good as my, fairly modest, pedalboard yet. I will persevere as I don't want to end up sounding like a guy I gigged with a couple of years ago, he had a Helix and a pair of 8" FRFR boxes, sounded pretty feeble compared to my 18 watt combo and a Tube Screamer

[Murray B]

I bought a Headrush Gigboard at the beginning of lockdown last year. I like it a lot but I can't say I've got it to sound as good as my, fairly modest, pedalboard yet. I will persevere as I don't want to end up sounding like a guy I gigged with a couple of years ago, he had a Helix and a pair of 8" FRFR boxes, sounded pretty feeble compared to my 18 watt combo and a Tube Screamer

I can't speak re the workflow on the Headrush, but with my newish Pod Go the only way I eventually got to the sounds I like was ditching the idea of setting up the sounds on my headphones and tweaking stuff at gig volume, the Cab high and low pass setting were key to getting something that actually sounded like a guitar amp. Also for me, using the cab module at the end of the signal chain made everything sound more guitar amp like - so the reverbs and delays were going through a speaker sim instead of being super clean. Is it as good as my board and amp? Nope - but it's close enough for me to not worry about it too much and works very well with the PA.

[Dynamic Mike]

I can't speak re the workflow on the Headrush, but with my newish Pod Go the only way I eventually got to the sounds I like was ditching the idea of setting up the sounds on my headphones and tweaking stuff at gig volume, the Cab high and low pass setting were key to getting something that actually sounded like a guitar amp. Also for me, using the cab module at the end of the signal chain made everything sound more guitar amp like - so the reverbs and delays were going through a speaker sim instead of being super clean. Is it as good as my board and amp? Nope - but it's close enough for me to not worry about it too much and works very well with the PA.

This has pretty much been my Pod Go experience too. Awsome sounds created on headphones (espcially cleanish tones) sounded flat & lifeless through the main outs without tweaking the Cab high/low pass settings. Although you can easily save these as snapshots, it still felt like I was doing everything twice & it's a bit of a faff unless you're editing via the software. But until you posted this I'd never thought of sticking the cab at the end of the chain instead of directly after the amp. I don't know why because that's where it is in real life!

To be honest none of the compromises made by the Pod Go from the full fat Helix bother me in the slightest. I've never struggled for DSP, I won't be dual amping & I'll probably never use 75% of the available amp/fx emulations anyway. Naming snapshots & staggered switches would be nice & as a left hooker I'd like the vol/wha on the opposite side but with Helix tones for silly money it seems churlish to complain.

[The Elf]

I bought a Headrush Gigboard at the beginning of lockdown last year. I like it a lot but I can't say I've got it to sound as good as my, fairly modest, pedalboard yet. I will persevere as I don't want to end up sounding like a guy I gigged with a couple of years ago, he had a Helix and a pair of 8" FRFR boxes, sounded pretty feeble compared to my 18 watt combo and a Tube Screamer

All about the user, I'd say. There's no reason for a Helix to sound thin if you know what you're doing (cabs notwithstanding).

I have a collection of presets from guitarists I've worked with. Some of them exhibit a total lack of understanding (and sound odd), while others sound simply stunning. That's the thing with the Helix, and similar - they give you enough options to sound like a god, or a fly in a bottle. After that it's about your taste and your ability. And far be it from me to question some of these guys - it's like questioning someone's religion! Interesting that the strongest opinions seem to be from the ones with the oddest signal chains...

Your combo and TS are fine, but you can't switch in a whole new chain of effects at the click of a switch - or stereo delay, or reverb, for example, or choose a different amp/cab per song. That's important for some acts. And how it sounds from a cab sitting next to you is not *as* important (though it has a bearing, obviously) as it sounds out front. I've heard some mighty rigs also reduced to the 'fly in a bottle' by the time it reaches the audience!

[Sam Spoons]

I bought a Headrush Gigboard at the beginning of lockdown last year. I like it a lot but I can't say I've got it to sound as good as my, fairly modest, pedalboard yet. I will persevere as I don't want to end up sounding like a guy I gigged with a couple of years ago, he had a Helix and a pair of 8" FRFR boxes, sounded pretty feeble compared to my 18 watt combo and a Tube Screamer

All about the user, I'd say. There's no reason for a Helix to sound thin if you know what you're doing (cabs notwithstanding).

No argument there, I'm not trying to suggest that Helix et al can't be made to sound great just that this particular guy hadn't managed it, (I'm not tech-phobic and for many years used a GX700/Marshall8008 rig).

Your combo and TS are fine, but you can't switch in a whole new chain of effects at the click of a switch - or stereo delay, or reverb, for example, or choose a different amp/cab per song. That's important for some acts.

Yup no argument there too.

And how it sounds from a cab sitting next to you is not *as* important (though it has a bearing, obviously) as it sounds out front.

No but for some players it makes it very hard to perform to 100% if the onstage sound is poor, I'm not precious but I certainly find it easier to play my best if my guitar sounds great to me.

I've heard some mighty rigs also reduced to the 'fly in a bottle' by the time it reaches the audience!

Me too but that said, if it sounds good on stage then it's the sound guy's job to make it sound good out front (said with both my guitarist hat and my sound tech hat on). It does still have to sound good on stage first though.

FWIW I will probably be continuing to use my 18 watt and be treating the Headrush like a pedalboard simply 'cos that's how I like to work, I know that's only using part of it's capabilities

[Random Guitarist]

Unusually for me I had someone say that my guitar had a really powerful sound at the weekend. I was surprised as I had left all the valves at home and gone out to play with a Helix and a Wharfdale titan 12. I'm not used to tone compliments and was a little taken a back.

I was waiting for a followup along the lines of 'I don't know how you got so many bees in that little jar', but it never came.

[Funkyflash5]

Your combo and TS are fine, but you can't switch in a whole new chain of effects at the click of a switch - or stereo delay, or reverb, for example, or choose a different amp/cab per song. That's important for some acts.

That's broadly true, but with my ES-8 I certainly can set up to switch in a whole new chain of effects with one switch, while still being able to turn a knob with my toe if the creative moment calls for a different sound than planned in advance. Not that I have anything against digital in principal, I also have a Poly Beebo if I want to do Cab IRs or some convoluted interconnected signal path, but having physical controls at my toes is still worthwhile for how I work.

[SecretSam]

Of course, if you spend a few hundred quid on a Voodoo Labs Ground Control, then you can indeed switch entire chains of effects with one stomp.

Although I would suggest that if you need a pedalboard to control your pedalboard, you may have lost sight of why you turned up in the first place.

Dan Patlansky, having been through many pedal experiments, opines that the optimum number of pedals is five. Beyond that, the complexity and signal degradation outweigh the benefits.

I don't recall the old masters using massive pedal boards, so the magic number five might be about right. Your thoughts?

[Murray B]

Dan Patlansky, having been through many pedal experiments, opines that the optimum number of pedals is five. Beyond that, the complexity and signal degradation outweigh the benefits.

I don't recall the old masters using massive pedal boards, so the magic number five might be about right. Your thoughts?

That's interesting - I will of course agree as I have 5 pedals on my board - but I'm not counting the Tuner