Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

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Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

I’m having trouble getting my Keystep to interface with my modular, it works fine via Midi, and USB, but I’m not getting anything via the CV outputs, Gate, Pitch.
If I connect it to an envelope generator or an oscillator in my modular, it seems to output a continuous voltage, not a gate, instead of coming on only when I press a key, the lights on my envelope generators stay on all the time.
Also, the arpeggiator doesn’t seem to be sending anything.
All of my other synths with CV outputs work fine with my modular, I’m a bit puzzled I may be missing a setting on the Keystep.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Ben Asaro »

Unfortunately, I don't own a K37, but I do own two regular KS, A KSP, a BeatStep, and a BSP. I don't imagine they operate terribly different from each other.

Though it should work right out of the box, have you connected it to a computer running MIDI Controller and checked the setup? Is it running on the latest firmware? Have you checked to see if other KS37 owners had the same issue and was it resolved with a firmware update?

Do you have any modules that have visual feedback, like an LED light indicating that it's receiving gate? When you connect the Gate output, what does that indicate? (Same with the CV)

Do you accidentally have the Hold function engaged?

Have you tried using the MIDI out? Does that work?
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Eddy Deegan »

The outputs are somewhat configurable with the Arturia MIDI Control Center software but assuming it's not faulty (I'd be a bit surprised if it was) it sounds possible that you might have it patched incorrectly.

I own one but it's in The Netherlands and I've not had access to it for nearly 2 years! Checking the manual I see:

Keystep manual (page 13) wrote:
1.7.3. Pitch/Gate/Mod outputs

These are normally used to send electrical signals to an external device such as Arturia's popular analog synthesizers (MiniBrute/SE, MicroBrute/SE, MatrixBrute) or to a modular analog synthesizer.

The Pitch output is often referred to as Control Voltage or CV. The Gate output is sometimes known as a Trigger. The Mod output is a second type of Control Voltage output that can berouted to any number of destinations on the target device.

The MIDI Control Center allows you to configure the type of electrical signals sent by each output. See section 7.3 [p.56] for information about the signal types that are supported.


Keystep manual (page 56) wrote:
7.3. MOD/GATE/PITCH specifications

Some analog synthesizers have unusual implementations that are not fully compatible with the KeyStep 37 MOD/GATE/PITCH signals. Please refer to their specifications before making a purchase so you can be sure the two devices will work together well.

We've designed KeyStep 37 to be as flexible as possible, though: the MIDI Control Center allows you to configure the response of the MOD/GATE PITCH jacks in a number of ways.

• PITCH has two options, each with its own keyboard reference settings:
◦ 1 Volt/octave (0-10V)
◦ 0 volt MIDI note range: C-2 to G8
◦ Hertz per volt (max ~12V)
◦ 1 volt MIDI note range: C-2 to G8 (1V reference default: C0)

• The GATE output has three options:
◦ S-trigger
◦ V-trigger: 5 volts
◦ V-trigger: 12 volts

• The MOD output has eight options ranging from 0-12 volts. By setting the Max voltage for this output, you can fine-tune the effect of the MOD output or accomodate devices that do not respond well to higher voltage levels.

See Chapter 9 [p.64] for a description of the related MIDI Control Center parameters.

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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Ben Asaro wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:56 pm Unfortunately, I don't own a K37, but I do own two regular KS, A KSP, a BeatStep, and a BSP. I don't imagine they operate terribly different from each other.

Though it should work right out of the box, have you connected it to a computer running MIDI Controller and checked the setup? Is it running on the latest firmware? Have you checked to see if other KS37 owners had the same issue and was it resolved with a firmware update?

Do you have any modules that have visual feedback, like an LED light indicating that it's receiving gate? When you connect the Gate output, what does that indicate? (Same with the CV)

Do you accidentally have the Hold function engaged?

Have you tried using the MIDI out? Does that work?

Thanks everyone, I have EG's that have lights to indicate they are receiving Gate/Triggers, they stay on all the time when the KS is connected, the Hold button is "not" engaged.
When I swap out the KS and connect my Moog Grandmother all works perfectly, I connect the gate out, and keyboard CV out, it’s fine, everything that works on the Moog connects to my modular, even the arpeggiator and sequencer.
The KS works fine with my computer, and my iPad over Midi, but there’s this continuous voltage over CV, and it makes EG's stick on, and produces a low rumble with oscillators.
I could work around this with a Midi Module, but what’s the point, seeing as the KS has CV!
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by BigRedX »

Are you sending the correct gate type to the modular?

The part of the manual posted above show that there are three gate options S-trigger and two levels of voltage trigger.

IIRC Moog equipment uses s-trig rather than v-trig, which would explain why the Grandmother works as expected and why the modular has the trig lights continuously on. Have a look in the EG module's manual and see what sort of Gate it is expecting and then use the control program to change it to the correct one.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

As explained, the Arturia's outputs are configurable. It would be wise to learn how to configure them appropriately before dismissing it as an inadequate product!
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:48 am As explained, the Arturia's outputs are configurable. It would be wise to learn how to configure them appropriately before dismissing it as an inadequate product!

I’m not dismissing it, I’m puzzled as to why it’s not working, as I’ve looked at the default settings in the app, and they should be fine, I’ve sent a mail to support, hopefully they can sort it out.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by BigRedX »

Arpangel wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:59 am
Hugh Robjohns wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:48 am As explained, the Arturia's outputs are configurable. It would be wise to learn how to configure them appropriately before dismissing it as an inadequate product!

I’m not dismissing it, I’m puzzled as to why it’s not working, as I’ve looked at the default settings in the app, and they should be fine, I’ve sent a mail to support, hopefully they can sort it out.

In that case can you confirm what type of gate the Moog and Modular are expecting, and what type of gate the Keystep is currently outputting? My gut feeling is that the two receiving devices need different types of gate, which is the reason why one works and the other doesn't.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Ben Asaro »

Any joy, Arpangel?
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Ben Asaro wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:29 am Any joy, Arpangel?

Yes, it looks like the voltage standard on the Keystep could be "out of range' for some of my modules, it is adjustable, but obviously, not all modules are the same. My Moogs are 1 volt per octave, they seem to work fine on most things, but I’m finding generally that I have to transpose right down, and lower the range of oscillators, to get a usable range.
The reason why I’m not hearing anything is simply because the sound is way too high, I have to go into Control for the Keystep and play around.
Triggers and gates are sorted, you have to press buttons in the right order on Keystep, otherwise things just won’t work, it’s not instinctive.
I’m making progress, slowly.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Ben Asaro »

If you’re talking about pitch, yes; the 0V pitch is different for every manufacturer, so you have to find a happy medium between the Arturia’s 0V pitch and where the oscillator is set.

Comes with the territory, the joy of modular lol. :headbang:

Glad you got it sorted!
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Ben Asaro wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:25 pm If you’re talking about pitch, yes; the 0V pitch is different for every manufacturer, so you have to find a happy medium between the Arturia’s 0V pitch and where the oscillator is set.

Comes with the territory, the joy of modular lol. :headbang:

Glad you got it sorted!

No Ben, I don’t like it, and it doesn’t like me, I don’t like the feel of it, or the way it works, I’ll be using my Moog as the controller for my Euro, when I need to, it just gets on with it, no software or any of that rubbish.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Ben Asaro »

Sounds sorted to me! :D
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Ben Asaro wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:19 pm Sounds sorted to me! :D

I was within a few feet of a large hammer yesterday, if a piece of gear makes me feel like that it has no place o my studio, in fact, it was very strange, I nearly smashed up my entire studio, let’s just say "I had a moment"
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Terrible.dee »

I like you.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Terrible.dee »

Ben Asaro wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:25 pm If you’re talking about pitch, yes; the 0V pitch is different for every manufacturer, so you have to find a happy medium between the Arturia’s 0V pitch and where the oscillator is set.

Comes with the territory, the joy of modular lol. :headbang:

Glad you got it sorted!

Oh no!

Not with Arturia!

Anyone who has ever tried to connect a Mini and Micro Brute via CV knows that they like to change their CV standards IN HOUSE!!

Products that couldn't be more similar, without actually BEING the same product are NOT compatible via CV.

This is one of the 1000 reasons I don't trust Arturia. And CRINGE when I think of them marketing products that cost more than a couple of hundred bucks.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Terrible.dee »

Arpangel wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:55 am I’m having trouble getting my Keystep to interface with my modular, it works fine via Midi, and USB, but I’m not getting anything via the CV outputs, Gate, Pitch.
If I connect it to an envelope generator or an oscillator in my modular, it seems to output a continuous voltage, not a gate, instead of coming on only when I press a key, the lights on my envelope generators stay on all the time.
Also, the arpeggiator doesn’t seem to be sending anything.
All of my other synths with CV outputs work fine with my modular, I’m a bit puzzled I may be missing a setting on the Keystep.

Sorry man,

But ALWAYS expect a "catch" with Arturia...

....I could tell you stories.....things that are quite honestly HILARIOUS in my dealings with that company.

....dealing with their products made me feel like I was the subject of a practical joke. As in "They can't be serious....can they?"

Know who you are dealing with.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by nathanscribe »

I've resorted to getting CV out of my Keystep by plugging its MIDI out into a Kenton Pro Solo.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Guest »

Terrible.dee wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:26 am
Arpangel wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:55 am I’m having trouble getting my Keystep to interface with my modular, it works fine via Midi, and USB, but I’m not getting anything via the CV outputs, Gate, Pitch.
If I connect it to an envelope generator or an oscillator in my modular, it seems to output a continuous voltage, not a gate, instead of coming on only when I press a key, the lights on my envelope generators stay on all the time.
Also, the arpeggiator doesn’t seem to be sending anything.
All of my other synths with CV outputs work fine with my modular, I’m a bit puzzled I may be missing a setting on the Keystep.

Sorry man,

But ALWAYS expect a "catch" with Arturia...

....I could tell you stories.....things that are quite honestly HILARIOUS in my dealings with that company.

....dealing with their products made me feel like I was the subject of a practical joke. As in "They can't be serious....can they?"

Know who you are dealing with.

Can you give some examples?
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Eddy Deegan »

Well over a decade ago, at the time of the V collection prior to V4, Arturia could be challenging as they didn't really have very good support and at one point I almost felt they'd abandoned their product offerings as it would be weeks or months between updates from them on their forum.

Something happened soon after 2010 and they emerged with an unrecognisably better service, an impressive installer/licensing tool, have regularly updated and improved their software offerings and have gone from strength to strength ever since.

On the relatively rare occasions I've had dealings with their support I've found them efficient, courteous and effective. In addition to a lot more of their plugins I have a number of hardware products of theirs now, all of which are beautifully designed, well built and reasonably priced.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Eddy Deegan »

Terrible.dee wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:19 am Products that couldn't be more similar, without actually BEING the same product are NOT compatible via CV.

Err, they are compatible via CV ... :think:

The voltages are different but they work together just fine over CV and you can simply adjust the tunings to taste.

Your lack of patience and/or understanding isn't Arturia's fault I'm afraid.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

My experiences with Arturia support has been, shall we say, a bit comical, no tragedies as such, just a bit comical, I’m sure they are nice people though :)
It's a bit like buying a car that has a lot of really silly faults, that should never have been there, but the company are so apologetic, and helpful about resolving them, they disarm you, and then you think "hey! but the faults shouldn’t have been there in the first place!"
I have to be honest, Arturia have infuriated me a lot in the past, I spent ages making great sounds with some of their early soft synths, and they never really made later versions backwards compatible, they gave me a converter, but it never, ever worked, I had to keep an old PC running just to play those sounds.
I don’t know what’s up with this Keystep, but it’s a pain, I just can’t take to it, my Moogs seem to play with my modular nicely, so I’m using them as controllers, the KS is not intuitive, if I’d have known how it behaves and the "logic" of how it works I’d have never have bought it.
I’ll keep it as a handy Midi controller, but that’s about it.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Ben Asaro »

For what it's worth, none of what you are describing as issues are actual issues.

Arturia's controllers are designed to work with the widest range of devices available, including old Korg and vintage units. As a result, they will require configuration to work.

It takes a bit of time to get it dialed in, but once that happens, you're set. Sometimes it can be a bit baffling, but the alternative is something that only works with a handful of specific devices.

No two people with modular setups have their equipment set up in the same way. That's a monumental design challenge for something like the KeyStep, which has an extraordinary amount of functionality at its price point.

Your analogy to a car with 'silly faults' is also misleading. If you don't RTFM, how is it the fault of Arturia that it doesn't work with your one, specific, unique setup?
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Ben Asaro wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:07 pm For what it's worth, none of what you are describing as issues are actual issues.

Arturia's controllers are designed to work with the widest range of devices available, including old Korg and vintage units. As a result, they will require configuration to work.

It takes a bit of time to get it dialed in, but once that happens, you're set. Sometimes it can be a bit baffling, but the alternative is something that only works with a handful of specific devices.

No two people with modular setups have their equipment set up in the same way. That's a monumental design challenge for something like the KeyStep, which has an extraordinary amount of functionality at its price point.

Your analogy to a car with 'silly faults' is also misleading. If you don't RTFM, how is it the fault of Arturia that it doesn't work with your one, specific, unique setup?

Ben, you should know me very well by now, even though you’ve never met me.

:):):)

If a guy is wearing cheap brown shoes he’s already on a losing wicket with me, baseball caps? forget it, it’s the same with synths.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Ben Asaro »

:D

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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Ben Asaro wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:18 pm:D

Image

Ooooh! Ooooh!

:D:D:D

I can’t be too bad on Arturia, they did change my life, so.
When they came out, I bought the Moog Modular, and ARP 2600, and went on to record loads of stuff with them, I thought they were magical.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Given up on this, the CV out is very unreliable, Arturia released an update, but it’s still not up to scratch.
I’m just going to get a Midi module for my rack and use any of my other keyboards, my Moogs don’t seem to have any of the issues I’m getting with the Keystep, they control everything fine, and I can use the sequencers and arps on-board the Moogs, so problem solved.
One of the main reasons I got the Keystep was for it’s CV outputs, so if you’re doing the same, just be careful to check it out first, to see if it actually works with your system.
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Ben Asaro »

I have mmMIDI from ALM, it will do two MIDI voices to CV at once, is inexpensive, and works great. Definitely recommended, unless you need more that two voices.

https://busycircuits.com/alm023/
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Re: Arturia Keystep 37 issues.

Post by Arpangel »

Ben Asaro wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:49 pm I have mmMIDI from ALM, it will do two MIDI voices to CV at once, is inexpensive, and works great. Definitely recommended, unless you need more that two voices.

https://busycircuits.com/alm023/

Thanks Ben, looks like the perfect solution.

:thumbup:
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