RME TotalMix loses settings

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RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by OneWorld »

I use RME800 Fireface which I consider a trusty old workhorse but there is one thing I simply cannot fathom - why will it not keep its settings. For example when I work on a project in Cubase I set up inputs and outputs in the Fireface Matrix, I save both Workspace and Snapshot.

Then I might go to another Cubase project, and the TotalMix Settings can go all over the place, most noticeably, the inputs for the hardware synths need re-assigning again eg synth1 - analogue 2+3, synth2 analogue 4+5 and so on.

Another quirk is when I assign the synths I only get one channel. So I have to go to the Mixer View, click on whatever channel, select the spanner, deselect Stereo, click the spanner again, reselect Stereo and then I get input on both channels. None of these things is mission critical but I cannot under why TotalMix can't hold onto its settings. I also have a Focusrite LiquidMix 56 and no matter what I throw at it, it always comes up with the correct settings.

Anyone got any ideas how, seems I can't fix this in the (total)Mix
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by The Elf »

Sounds like you maybe have the MIDI remote option switched on.
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by OneWorld »

The Elf wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:58 pm Sounds like you maybe have the MIDI remote option switched on.

Nope, it is off, and anyway, I don't have any MIDI cables connected.

Another thing is that I reset TotalMix to DAW mode and when I do, I can see activity (audio signal) going to TotalMix AN 1+2 (my stereo out) but I don't hear a thing through the headphones. I have checked Cubase Mixer and yep in the Mixer Stereo/Master channel, there is activity. It says on the RME website that the DAW mode is supposed to be an easy quick option, yes it is quick, thing is I don't get any sound out of it :-(
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by Aled Hughes »

Totalmix sees the main outs and headphone outs as separate outputs (on my Babyface and Madiface Pro for example, Analog 1/2 are the main speaker outs, and Analog 3/4 are the headphones out. Either you need to send Cubase out of Analog 3/4 (or whatever the headphone outputs are- they might be 9/10 on the 802 we have in the studio, I’m not sure), or you need to route the ‘Analog 1/2’ software out in Totalmix to the headphone hardware out.*

*As much as I love it, this is one of the things I find odd about Totalmix. The software playback channels are tied to the hardware outputs in name and number. You can’t have more software playback channels than you have hardware outputs, and they also share the same name unless your DAW can rename them. So if you choose ‘Analog 1/2’ as your outputs in your DAW, it doesn’t necessarily correspond with the actual hardware Analog 1/2 out. It just means you’ve selected the software playback channels in Totalmix that’s also named ‘Analog 1/2’- you still need to route that to the hardware outputs (the ‘DAW mode’ does this automatically 1:1, which is why your Cubase on Analog 1/2 doesn’t reach your headphones, which are on Analog 3/4 (or something else)
It’s a bit weird, I don’t see why they should automatically be named the same.

There are a couple of other quirks, some quite annoying, others not as much, but in the main it’s pretty awesome!
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by OneWorld »

Aled Hughes wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:57 pm Totalmix sees the main outs and headphone outs as separate outputs (on my Babyface and Madiface Pro for example, Analog 1/2 are the main speaker outs, and Analog 3/4 are the headphones out. Either you need to send Cubase out of Analog 3/4 (or whatever the headphone outputs are- they might be 9/10 on the 802 we have in the studio, I’m not sure), or you need to route the ‘Analog 1/2’ software out in Totalmix to the headphone hardware out.*

*As much as I love it, this is one of the things I find odd about Totalmix. The software playback channels are tied to the hardware outputs in name and number. You can’t have more software playback channels than you have hardware outputs, and they also share the same name unless your DAW can rename them. So if you choose ‘Analog 1/2’ as your outputs in your DAW, it doesn’t necessarily correspond with the actual hardware Analog 1/2 out. It just means you’ve selected the software playback channels in Totalmix that’s also named ‘Analog 1/2’- you still need to route that to the hardware outputs (the ‘DAW mode’ does this automatically 1:1, which is why your Cubase on Analog 1/2 doesn’t reach your headphones, which are on Analog 3/4 (or something else)
It’s a bit weird, I don’t see why they should automatically be named the same.

There are a couple of other quirks, some quite annoying, others not as much, but in the main it’s pretty awesome!

Yep, I sort of gathered that, the issue of the headphones being assigned to an assigned stereos out. One of my problems is I seem to have the Focusrite MixControl setup etched into my being which sort of does things different, again all things can be sent anywhere, so for example I could have stereo out -> headphones and each time I start up the DAW, it stays that way.

Any idea why TotalMix doesn't save the settings? I can save a workspace and a snapshot, but the ones I save don't always load as with an identical config, I have resorted these days to doing a screenshot of a working setup. For example, the hardware synths either lose the connection of open in mono.

I have 4 hardware synths, let's call them synth1.......synth4. For example I have 2 projects in Cunase, Project 1 & Project2

I load Project1 which uses Synth1 & synth 2

Project2 used synth3 & synth4

I load Project1 into Cubase, TotalMix has synth1 & synth2 connected (the green boxes ticked in matrix view)

I save it the setup (workspace & snapshot) and save and close Project1 in Cubase.

I now open Project2 (which uses synth3 & synth4) and if the wind is blowing in the right direction, TotalMix shows synth3 and synth4 connected, but not synth1 and synth2, which I would have thought would still be displayed, as they were connected when I had Project1 opened

Why have the connections dropped when I open another project? Surely if I save a workspace & snapshot with the 4 synths connected, and all outputs assigned eg An 1+3 => StereoAmp AN 3+4 => Headphones AN 5+6 => hardware EFX etc then when I open the saved snapshot & workspace surely those connections should be preserved, surely that is the whole point of saving them?

Like yourself, I think TotalMix is a very flexible utility, but there are these quirks relating to things one would think would be intuitive that at times yearning for the simplicity of the Focusrite alternative
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by The Elf »

I've never used the matrix view, or DAW mode (whatever that is). I think you're maybe over-complicating it. Every hardware input should be available to your DAW and the middle row are the outputs your DAW sees. It's really very simple as long as you understand those aspects.

All that remains is to create a mix to the lower row and you're done.
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by Aled Hughes »

The Elf wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:27 pm I've never used the matrix view, or DAW mode (whatever that is). I think you're maybe over-complicating it. Every hardware input should be available to your DAW and the middle row are the outputs your DAW sees. It's really very simple as long as you understand those aspects.

All that remains is to create a mix to the lower row and you're done.

The DAW mode is a 1:1 patch, essentially taking Totalmix out of the equation, and allowing your DAW to ‘see’ the outputs directly. Less flexible, but can be useful for some.

Matrix mode is also useful, especially if you want to use Totalmix as something resembling a patchbay with snapshots etc.

I have no idea why your settings are not being stored I’m afraid - the only time I’ve ever had Totalmix not restore to its previous state is when power was suddenly lost without shutting down the PC (a pain when several headphone mixes had been painstakingly crafted!). Other than that, workspaces and snapshots work fine for me on three different systems, and Totalmix boots up next morning in the same state as it was when shut down.

I have uses the old Focusrite control app quite a bit. Less flexible and complete than Totalmix, but I thought it was giod, intuitive and fairly comprehensive.

I love Totalmix though 😉!
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by OneWorld »

Aled Hughes wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:50 pm
The Elf wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:27 pm I've never used the matrix view, or DAW mode (whatever that is). I think you're maybe over-complicating it. Every hardware input should be available to your DAW and the middle row are the outputs your DAW sees. It's really very simple as long as you understand those aspects.

All that remains is to create a mix to the lower row and you're done.

The DAW mode is a 1:1 patch, essentially taking Totalmix out of the equation, and allowing your DAW to ‘see’ the outputs directly. Less flexible, but can be useful for some.

Matrix mode is also useful, especially if you want to use Totalmix as something resembling a patchbay with snapshots etc.

I have no idea why your settings are not being stored I’m afraid - the only time I’ve ever had Totalmix not restore to its previous state is when power was suddenly lost without shutting down the PC (a pain when several headphone mixes had been painstakingly crafted!). Other than that, workspaces and snapshots work fine for me on three different systems, and Totalmix boots up next morning in the same state as it was when shut down.

I have uses the old Focusrite control app quite a bit. Less flexible and complete than Totalmix, but I thought it was giod, intuitive and fairly comprehensive.

I love Totalmix though 😉!

It isn't that TotalMix loses settings on starting up the DAW and opening a project, it is when the DAW is already running and a project open and for example I have synth1 & synth2 'active' within the project and thus active within TotalMix (eg the intersect in the matrix in green)

But say I close the project and open another project and that project does not have synth1 or synth2 'active' so I open TotalMix and sure enough, the matrix shows no connection at the intersect, before it connects I have to switch to Full Mode, select the synth input, change from stereo to mono and back to stereo to 'activate' stereo left and right, and then if I switch matrix mode the intersect on the matrix displays green for both left and right and off I go. I can then patch the signal paths. It is keeping that working setting I want to achieve when I change projects.

I have abandoned the DAW mode, yes I know it is supposed to represent the DAW mixer direct, and that is what I am attempting to do, and thus one would think get a bit more predictability, seeing as it is supposed to be simpler, but as mentioned, I just don't get a signal. So for now I'll just have to put up with the quirks of Full Mode which at least allows me to patch A to 1/2/3 etc and B to 1/2/3 etc and get the signal presented where I need it, my difficulty is preserving the setup once established
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by OneWorld »

The Elf wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:27 pm I've never used the matrix view, or DAW mode (whatever that is). I think you're maybe over-complicating it. Every hardware input should be available to your DAW and the middle row are the outputs your DAW sees. It's really very simple as long as you understand those aspects.

All that remains is to create a mix to the lower row and you're done.


That's the whole issue, 'every hardware input' is NOT available until I 'activate' it as described, which is a faff, what should be and what is are 2 different things, hence my query, intuition would suggest that the signals are present at the hardware inputs, but they're not. The middle row, is not affected, that works as expected.

Anyway I have given up faffing about with it now
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by Aled Hughes »

I see.

Could it be something to do with ‘ASIO Direct Monitoring’, where Cubase is taking control of Totalmix?

Cubase and Totalmix supports this, and it’s the only way I can think that would change the settings between projects. Maybe have a look if it’s enabled in either Cubase or Totalmix.

ASIO Direct Monitoring seems like a neat system to me, and I wish that Reaper had it, but I guess it’s a pain if you want to leave Totalmix as-is!
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by The Elf »

I would switch Direct Monitoring off too - PITA. It's simpler without it. Is that switched on here? This 'DAW mode' still bothers me. I've never heard of it - is that turning on Direct Monitoring, maybe? If so spurn it like a rabid dog. Let Cubase handle the ins and outs, and use Control Room to designate the monitoring ouputs. Strip TM down to the most basic set-up.

I know plenty of people with Firefaces (and used one myself here for many years - still use one at 'the other place', in fact) and none of them have to do any of the things you're describing. No way should you have to 'activate' inputs.

It all sounds very odd. About the only setting that used to be required was to put TM into sub-mix view, and I think even that defaulted in later versions.

I'm also beginning to wonder if the internal battery is maybe depleted, which might explain settings getting lost, but likely this is the wrong tree to bark up.
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Re: RME TotalMix loses settings

Post by rggillespie »

I’ve a RME 400 and despite trying to master or at least learn totalmix, I’ve always found difficult. Too complex me with my very basic grasp of the processes it’s capable of. I’ve emailed rme on a couple of occasions and they’ve been excellent and helped me solve the issues I was having. Maybe drop them a line?
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