Are the older hardware synths becoming the new investment?

[OneWorld]

A few years ago I sold a Novation Supernova rack for £250 and think I was lucky to get that price. Just out of interest, I looked on eBay and people are asking £300-£500 for one, even more for version II

I also sold an EMU XL1 at £150, now people are asking £200+ and I sold a Virus TI at £750 after just 1 day

Will we be seeing synths on sale at Sotheby’s any day soon?

[resistorman]

I've already ranted about the vintage stuff enough

But I wonder if more recent synths are selling for more because of supply chain issues for new ones? Or is all the "vintage is better" propaganda propagating (sorry) forward in time?

[The Elf]

I see all gear purchases as an investment in *myself*. If I can make music with it, it does something special and it inspires me, then it's worth it; I'm not going to sell an instrument that achieves this, so its value is of little consequence to me.

And if it doesn't achieve this then it's of no value to me, so out the door it goes.

I've heard all these stories about the crazy prices gear changes hands for, and I take it with a pinch of salt. It's not that many years ago I sold my Jupiter-8 and I can tell you it didn't exactly fly out the door on wings of bank notes.

Yes, I still have a few bits of ancient gear around, but as time goes on I find newer gear that achieves the same for less hassle and I'm happy to move on - I'm hard nosed about these things. Reliability and ease of use are as much a desirable quality of an instrument as any other. Most recently I swapped out my Oberheim Xpander and replaced it with an Audiothingies MicroMonsta 2 that sounds close enough for me - collectors will gasp in horror, but people buying my next album will neither know nor care as long I make the music they want to hear.

The value of current much-revered instruments won't hold forever. There's a generation of players who grew up wanting such synths. When they've gone I think prices will reflect a more true worth.

Antiques Roadshow did once want me to take my MiniMoog along to a filming. I couldn't make it, unfortunately.

[OneWorld]

I've already ranted about the vintage stuff enough

But I wonder if more recent synths are selling for more because of supply chain issues for new ones? Or is all the "vintage is better" propaganda propagating (sorry) forward in time?

erm..........got any old synths you don't want

[resistorman]

I've already ranted about the vintage stuff enough

But I wonder if more recent synths are selling for more because of supply chain issues for new ones? Or is all the "vintage is better" propaganda propagating (sorry) forward in time?

erm..........got any old synths you don't want

I'll be selling em when the market peaks

[N i g e l]

supply chain issues are definitely a thing but various hardware & software clone companies must surely be erroding the market ?

Then again some people will pay £££££ for an ancient bottle of wine which would loose all value if opened and would probably taste a bit "off".

[Eddy Deegan]

I'm not sure 'investment' is the right term although doubling £250 in a few years is certainly a pleasant experience if it happens of course.

However it's reassuring that some older equipment is desirable enough to others that at least some of the initial cost can be realised when passing it on.

I'm with Elf on this - I buy equipment because I want or need it. There is never a thought about the resale price although I did have an opportunity once to obtain something rare and precious. It would have turned a tidy profit if I'd gone there and sold it subsequently but it was in the £40k+ range and if I had gone there I very much doubt I'd have sold it anyway so I didn't buy it because I wasn't looking for an investment; I wanted it but I couldn't justify the price for what I would get out of it.

I have only ever sold two synthesizers, both under £200. Neither of them would count as particularly desirable today (and I doubt would realise any more in value) and neither sale was in the last two decades. I sold them because I had to, not because I wanted to and I'd not sell them if I owned them today.

My synth collection is much like Hotel California ... you can check in, but you can never leave. On that latter point I differ from Elf

[Hugh Robjohns]

In a limited and niche way I think you're right. Some people are trading in exotic vintage synths as a way of making profit. But I'm not sure it would be wise financially to consider vintage synths as an investment in the conventional sense.

There is a similar high-value trade in vintage studio hardware, too, as entertainingly described in Dan Alexander's fascinating book.


https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/vi ... -alexander

[Arpangel]

They certainly won’t be going down in price.
I buy old audio all the time, instruments etc, because I like it, not because it’s an investment, at my age, there’s no point in thinking about that.

[Guest]

But I wonder if more recent synths are selling for more because of supply chain issues for new ones? Or is all the "vintage is better" propaganda propagating (sorry) forward in time?

There is also rarity and how long it takes people to think, "hey that actually sounds good".

I have a couple that I'm guessing I could get about what I paid new for them, an Arturia Origin and a Roland V-synth XT.

And another few that I can get far more for now, nearly double: Nord G1, Nord G2EX, DSI Pek and DSI Per.

All of these didn't sell that well and for that long as they were all a little complicated for their time, times have changed now and they are rare and people want them.

[The Elf]

I've always been a sucker for those devices that others reject out of hand - some of the humblest and cheapest keyboards I own are amongst my very favourites.

I'll mention:
Teisco S100P
Korg R3
Alesis Micron

Future 'classics', currently slipping under the radar, I predict will include:
DreadBox Typhon
Audiothingies MicroMonsta 2

Grab 'em while you can...

[FrankF]

There is a similar high-value trade in vintage studio hardware, too, as entertainingly described in Dan Alexander's fascinating book.


https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/vi ... -alexander

Ha! The Kindle edition is slightly more expensive than the hardback, according to your review.
It would seem that "vintage paper" prices are on the wane compared to "plug-in books"...

[Guest]

...
Future 'classics', currently slipping under the radar, I predict will include:
DreadBox Typhon
Audiothingies MicroMonsta 2

Grab 'em while you can...

I have currently disconnected everything here and ripped out all the wiring, things are gradually going to get boxed up or saved for use as we are moving next year.

The only synth so far to be reconnected is the MicroMonsta 2, the G2 will be as well. Everything else I think is for the box.

So the MicroMonsta 2 must have made a very good impression on me.

Looks like I have to get a DreadBox Typhon as well, your recommendations have been sound so far

[OneWorld]

..............I buy equipment because I want or need it. There is never a thought about the resale price ............

That's my point, you can buy a synth to make music (and goodness me, over the years I've bought a truckload) but then once any particular synth has fallen out of favour with myself, I am pleasantly surprised when I come to sell it that it has almost doubled in price, not only have I had the enjoyment of using, but I get my money back and then some. Way back when, you couldn't give synths away, but hey, such is life but now it seems things have turned around and I can hardly believe some of the prices I'm seeing, hardware is going through a renaissance, well, some of it is, I get that goes for anything - quality and class never goes out of fashion

[t-sun]

I've always been a sucker for those devices that others reject out of hand - some of the humblest and cheapest keyboards I own are amongst my very favourites.

I'll mention:
Teisco S100P
Korg R3
Alesis Micron

Future 'classics', currently slipping under the radar, I predict will include:
DreadBox Typhon
Audiothingies MicroMonsta 2

Grab 'em while you can...

I'm the same way about the unsung devices that have something unique or odd about them and never made a splash. I have a Kawai XS-1 and a Korg AG-1, which are both full digital synths but were sold in the form of 1/2 size rack or desktop modules for computers and never took off like the MT-32 did (the XS-1 is a Spectra KC-10, which was the final evolution of the K4 in fact).

They're only usually of interest to the retro-gaming crowd, which is where the market for old GM modules (particularly Sound Canvas) is coming from and those are surprisingly pricey these days.

[Folderol]

Hmmm. I wonder what my Mk1 soundcanvas is worth now

[OneWorld]

They said when CDs came out, vinyl was as good as dead and gone, how wrong they were. It seems that when they (the manufacturers) stop making something, it becomes more valued

[Hugh Robjohns]

Didn't work out so well for the collectors of guillotines or roman chariots...

[OneWorld]

Didn't work out so well for the collectors of guillotines or roman chariots...

Who has a guillotine at home and where would you put it, outside in the back garden? Dare to ignore planning permission and heads will roll, as for chariots, what model? 2, 4 or 6 horsepower? Ben Hurse might have some, telephone him so you can arrange to call and see ‘em

[Hugh Robjohns]

[Arpangel]

I've always been a sucker for those devices that others reject out of hand - some of the humblest and cheapest keyboards I own are amongst my very favourites.

I'll mention:
Teisco S100P
Korg R3
Alesis Micron

Future 'classics', currently slipping under the radar, I predict will include:
DreadBox Typhon
Audiothingies MicroMonsta 2

Grab 'em while you can...

Reject out of hand? I have a Micron too, it’s at the heart of what I do, my album "Storm Clouds Over Cricklewood" was done entirely on it, apart from one sampled piano part.
The Micron really is, in every sense, an amazing thing, at any price, in my case, £140.

[The Elf]

I've always been a sucker for those devices that others reject out of hand - some of the humblest and cheapest keyboards I own are amongst my very favourites.

I'll mention:
Teisco S100P
Korg R3
Alesis Micron

Future 'classics', currently slipping under the radar, I predict will include:
DreadBox Typhon
Audiothingies MicroMonsta 2

Grab 'em while you can...

Reject out of hand? I have a Micron too, it’s at the heart of what I do, my album "Storm Clouds Over Cricklewood" was done entirely on it, apart from one sampled piano part.
The Micron really is, in every sense, an amazing thing, at any price, in my case, £140.

It's a woeful design. The sideways pitch wheel and lack of mod wheel are instant 'pass' features for many, and the editing facilities are ghastly. But if you can see past these things, and perhaps adopt an external keyboard and editor (my appoach), then it's a wondrous little machine.

Don't let on, though - I'm hoping to grab a couple more for the band!

[The Elf]

Looks like I have to get a DreadBox Typhon as well, your recommendations have been sound so far

Arrgh! I feel the weight of responsibility!

One man's meat and all that. I like the Typhon for it's raw sound and its immediacy. It looks deceptively simple, but the modulation capability hiding under the hood is immense. It's becoming my psuedo ARP Pro-Soloist in many ways, having moved my PS on to pastures new.

Much like the MM2, the trick for me was creating an editor Layout in MIDI Designer. That opens up the synth massively (though in this case I can't currently dump patches to the editor for deconstruction.).

For some reason my Typhon refuses to be seen over USB via the hub through which my other synths happily converse. For this reason I have to attach a MIDI cable to it, but happily it's a 5-pin DIN and not some minijack nonsense.

[Sam Inglis]

I've always been a sucker for those devices that others reject out of hand - some of the humblest and cheapest keyboards I own are amongst my very favourites.

I'll mention:
Teisco S100P

I was selling some of my less used synths a while back and was on the point of listing my S100P when I made the mistake of plugging it in... I kept it and sold the Studio Electronics Midimini instead.

[Arpangel]

It's a woeful design. The sideways pitch wheel and lack of mod wheel are instant 'pass' features for many, and the editing facilities are ghastly. But if you can see past these things, and perhaps adopt an external keyboard and editor (my appoach), then it's a wondrous little machine.

Don't let on, though - I'm hoping to grab a couple more for the band!

The size is great, didn’t think about the sliders, don’t mind them, I’m just worried about the data entry knob, if it’s going to wear out, I'm OK with the editing, but it just involves so much use of that one knob.
I like playing it as it is, the keyboard feels nice, I don’t like playing anything remotely, there’s an instant feeling of disconnection, that’s why I don’t like VSTi's that much.

[N i g e l]

pots & switches are available for the micron, so the interface should be repairable if it deteriorates. Not sure about the insides though as each voice has custom chips.

You have praised the micron before and I was a bit shocked given your love of physical controls and the micon's lack there of !

The quirky design is by Axel Hartmann, the knob&LCD interface is minimalist but efficent, especially with the keyboard shortcuts. PC editor recommended !
Strangely there are 3 variants to cover most tastes -
Alesis micron : small quirky design
Alesis Ion : the big one with knobs
Akai Miniak : compact with more conformist layout

I like not just the micron's handy size & keyboard action, extensive sound engine but also the use of polyphony/multitimbrality - sequences or rhythm track can be playing and still allow keyboard playing over the top - great for seting up a quick jam or practice loop.

[BillB]

It's a woeful design. The sideways pitch wheel and lack of mod wheel are instant 'pass' features for many, and the editing facilities are ghastly. But if you can see past these things, and perhaps adopt an external keyboard and editor (my appoach), then it's a wondrous little machine.

Presumably the MidiDesigner template? Does that read parameters from the synth or do you start from INIT each time?

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Alesis Micron, and the Ion (same engine better UI) are climbing in price recently. People have noticed that they sound really good. I didn't personally enjoy the Ion UI as much as I did the Novation KS Rack UI. I thought both sounded really good.

But now a used Novation KS Rack sells for more than an Ultranova... that probably won't last long...

FWIW I am keeping both!

[BJG145]

Vintage synths have been collectors' investments for years. You don't have to spend much time on Vemia to be plunged into that world. The Syrinx went for £13K yesterday.

https://spheremusic.com/Bargaindtl.asp?Item=23725

(I'm still licking my wounds because a couple of very rare MIDI controllers turned up at this latest auction, the Tonal Plexus and the Axis 64, but they slipped away this time.)

[N i g e l]

Vintage synths have been collectors' investments for years. You don't have to spend much time on Vemia to be plunged into that world. The Syrinx went for £13K yesterday.

:gob smacked:
Syrinx - the one with the repair_your_own_car_bodywork type pitchbender !
It has never looked classy but probably as artistic in use as a modern Nord wooden pitch stick [which are nice].