Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by blinddrew »

yeroc wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:39 pm Both the Neumann KH 80 and APS Klasik 2020 are en route to the home studio. Will get some good testing in next week and see what happens :D

Do come back and tell us how you get on please.
I need to know if I should be wallowing in buyer's remorse or not. ;)
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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by yeroc »

blinddrew wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:07 pm
yeroc wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:39 pm Both the Neumann KH 80 and APS Klasik 2020 are en route to the home studio. Will get some good testing in next week and see what happens :D

Do come back and tell us how you get on please.
I need to know if I should be wallowing in buyer's remorse or not. ;)

ha! definitely will do. :thumbup:
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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by yeroc »

blinddrew wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:07 pm
yeroc wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:39 pm Both the Neumann KH 80 and APS Klasik 2020 are en route to the home studio. Will get some good testing in next week and see what happens :D

Do come back and tell us how you get on please.
I need to know if I should be wallowing in buyer's remorse or not. ;)

Spent about an hour doing some proper A/B testing today on commercial material and my own mixes.

The short story is I think the APS are going to be the winners. Both are extremely impressive, especially the KH80 given its' size. It's almost black magic (err DSP) how big the KH80's sound. If you had your eyes closed you would think both speakers are the same physical size. (Photo- https://imgur.com/a/uqRImm4 ) Both set's of monitors are enabling me to hear new details in material I know well! So fun! Various observations relative to one another.

The APS are overall a more cohesive soundscape. The frequencies and parts of songs all feel more connected to one another sonically. The Neumanns feel disconnected between the low end + mids. The mids and highs are very detailed on the Neumann's but they sound like they're in different spaces compared to the APS. It's actually pretty fascinating to flip back and forth and feel + hear it! I can probably dig in more and analyze what specific frequencies are being dipped/boosted between the two to give off this feel, but these are just my initial impressions.

I wondered + worried about the bass output on the Neumanns but have to say there's actually more than enough (to anyone who has qualms about it). I'd go even as far to say that the Neumanns feel more hyped(!) and rounded out in the bass than the APS. The bass on the APS feels more honest to me, with the full frequency response of the bass (low mids, transients, harmonic content) being a more detailed picture than the Neumanns.

Both monitors display excellent detail for effects like reverb and delay, but again the APS sound more detailed to me in this respect, with something like a reverb sounding like it sits in a place in the mix that makes more sense than the Neumann. I hope I'm conveying this well.

Im finding the Neumanns mid details to err on the side of nasally compared to the APS as well. Although I will say that I probably wouldn't have noticed this as much if I wasn't able to flip back and forth so easily.

Not so scientific and some quite candid emotional subjectivity with overall 'feel', but my two cents nonetheless. We'll see what happens when I come back tomorrow.
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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by blinddrew »

Curse you! :bouncy:

Ah well, I'm happy with my KH80s - let's face it, my speakers are much better than my ears so I'll worry again about monitors if they ever become the weak point in the chain again.

Let us know if you're perception is consistent in the morning. :thumbup:
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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by yeroc »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:07 pm:thumbup:

I gave Drew the full lowdown (har har) on my opinion after testing. I also revisited your earlier review on the KH80s and this part about the mids stuck out to me-

"With extended listening I gradually came to the opinion that the KH80s have a slightly more forward mid-range character than the KH310s, but when I discussed this with the boffins at Neumann it was suggested that this is probably a psychoacoustic side-effect of the linear-phase crossover filters, and that the perceived effect was because I was able to listen further into the mix. In fact the KH80 has the flattest and most neutral response of any Neumann monitor to date!"

Is this that psychoacoustic effect that I'm feeling/hearing in my description above about the full sonic picture of the monitors? It's certainly noticeable!
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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by yeroc »

blinddrew wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:25 pm Curse you! :bouncy:

Ah well, I'm happy with my KH80s - let's face it, my speakers are much better than my ears so I'll worry again about monitors if they ever become the weak point in the chain again.

Let us know if you're perception is consistent in the morning. :thumbup:

Definitely feel the same after a few days of listening and even moving the monitor positions too.. Honestly would be happy to mix on either sets of monitors though! The KH80's are pretty crazy for the size and I would happily recommend them to others!
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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by blinddrew »

Good stuff, I know a few people have previously mentioned both sets of monitors so it's good to have at least one pair of ears who've listened to both. :thumbup:
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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

yeroc wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:56 amIs this that psychoacoustic effect that I'm feeling/hearing in my description above about the full sonic picture of the monitors?

I suspect it is.

We have decades of listening to analogue speakers with atrocious phase issues and that has become a party of what we expect 'hi-fi' audio to sound like. Linear phase (DSP) speakers are more accurate and more natural sounding, but to appreciate that we need to unlearn decades of experience...
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Re: Neumann KH 80 vs APS Klasik 2020

Post by yeroc »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:58 am
yeroc wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:56 amIs this that psychoacoustic effect that I'm feeling/hearing in my description above about the full sonic picture of the monitors?

I suspect it is.

We have decades of listening to analogue speakers with atrocious phase issues and that has become a party of what we expect 'hi-fi' audio to sound like. Linear phase (DSP) speakers are more accurate and more natural sounding, but to appreciate that we need to unlearn decades of experience...

Fascinating! It's hard to get away from that analog, phased sound sounding 'right'

Interesting notes here re: the Klasik's phase response in diagram 4.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/aps-klasik-2020

I guess I like the way this sounds/it sounds correct to me..? Ha!

I'd love to hear Phil Ward's thoughts as well. (Dont know how to tag him here, or if I can)
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