Natural sounding headphones.

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by Sam Spoons »

No idea how they will sound but I've just bought a pair of these https://www.status.co/products/betweenpro triple driver, 12 hours battery etc. and got a pair of these free https://www.status.co/products/coreanc. £101 in total with VAT etc so unless they're really poor I'll not be grumbling.
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by James Perrett »

Sam, they're Bluetooth. Bluetooth can't handle uncompressed audio so you're going to be listening to data reduced audio. Probably fine for casual listening but not for serious work.
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by Sam Spoons »

Yeah, I did know that, I'll take wired for critical listening anytime but if they can deliver better sound than my Apple Airpods I'll be a happy bunny (the Airpods are pretty good as ear buds go but something a bit 'weightier' would be nice).
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by Vlaaing Peerd »

Bob Bickerton wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:53 am I used to use HD650s but found they were a little 'tight' on my head. For long sessions, I'm also after comfort. These days I use Beyer DT880s, which I find very comfortable, suitably neutral - well let me explain - they have a bit of a HF lift - but that helps my ageing ears.

I have the HD650 and recently bought the DT880. Am I the only one finding these DT880's to be incredibly harsh?

They are absolutely good for detecting problems with transients, resonances and ...erh whistle tones (is that good English?), but I find them very fatiguing for longer sessions. In that regard the HD650 is a lot more mellow.

I must say I never really got the hang of mixing on headphones. I think they are good for details in panning and reverb, but I always find I need to adjust a lot on EQ, levels and dynamics as soon as I turn on the monitors.
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by The Elf »

Vlaaing Peerd wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:34 am I must say I never really got the hang of mixing on headphones. I think they are good for details in panning and reverb, but I always find I need to adjust a lot on EQ, levels and dynamics as soon as I turn on the monitors.

But which mix translates better?
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by Arpangel »

Vlaaing Peerd wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:34 am
I have the HD650 and recently bought the DT880. Am I the only one finding these DT880's to be incredibly harsh?

They are absolutely good for detecting problems with transients, resonances and ...erh whistle tones (is that good English?), but I find them very fatiguing for longer sessions. In that regard the HD650 is a lot more mellow.

I think the 650’s are bright, god knows what the 880’s are like!
My faves are still the HD600’s.
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by blinddrew »

Vlaaing Peerd wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:34 am
Bob Bickerton wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:53 am I used to use HD650s but found they were a little 'tight' on my head. For long sessions, I'm also after comfort. These days I use Beyer DT880s, which I find very comfortable, suitably neutral - well let me explain - they have a bit of a HF lift - but that helps my ageing ears.

I have the HD650 and recently bought the DT880. Am I the only one finding these DT880's to be incredibly harsh?

I don't have the 880s but I've got 770s and 990s and, according to sonarworks, they all have a similar family sound. They've certainly got a high frequency lift, and I'd call them bright, but I wouldn't have said harsh.
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by Aled Hughes »

New Sennheiser HD 400 Pro look interesting.
I might be looking to change my K712 next year. I can borrow a pair of HD650 to compare, and I might order the HD400 and Austrian Audio Hi-X65 from somewhere with a generous returns policy* to try alongside.

*Do returns policies usually cover headphones? I know they often don’t cover earbuds etc. for hygiene reasons.
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by Bob Bickerton »

blinddrew wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:09 pm
Vlaaing Peerd wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:34 am
Bob Bickerton wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:53 am I used to use HD650s but found they were a little 'tight' on my head. For long sessions, I'm also after comfort. These days I use Beyer DT880s, which I find very comfortable, suitably neutral - well let me explain - they have a bit of a HF lift - but that helps my ageing ears.

I have the HD650 and recently bought the DT880. Am I the only one finding these DT880's to be incredibly harsh?

I don't have the 880s but I've got 770s and 990s and, according to sonarworks, they all have a similar family sound. They've certainly got a high frequency lift, and I'd call them bright, but I wouldn't have said harsh.

Headphones are such a subjective thing.

Firstly, as someone has already said, none are natural sounding, so we can let that concept go.

Some headphones are more accurate, that is, sound more 'flat' than others and of the headphones I've tried I would rate the HD600/650 as being some of the more accurate.

Now a shout out for https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com who have done some interesting research and have published a number of frequency response plots which I'll use here - please support their work.

There's been some debate about HD600 v HD650 - take a look at this:

Image

Blue HD650 - Red HD600

You can see the HD650 has a small HF rise.

Now let's look at the DT880 compared to the HD600 and HD650:

Image

Light Green DT880 - Dark Green HD650 - Orange HD600

Sure enough, we see more of a HF rise, in fact as much as 5dB around 7.5kHz to 12kHz, but they are remarkably similar to the HD600/650 otherwise.

I would not myself describe this as 'harsh', but as I said before, I have lost some HF myself so having a little 'reach' in this area is not a bad thing ;)

Importantly, we need to ask what is the task we are using the headphones for? For me their principal use is for monitoring at concerts and there's gigs where I may have to wear headphones on and off for up to 8 hours a day - so comfort is essential - providing the headphones are giving me the information I require. As stated before, I find the HD650s to be too much of a squeeze on my head, especially when wearing glasses.

The second purpose is to check the low and hi ends of a mix, and I use headphones to provide extension for this over my monitors.

We can go to huge lengths (and expense) to find the 'perfect' headphones, but my view is that I need something which will provide sufficient information to make decisions (largely monitoring and LF/HF checks in my case). For me the DT880s are fine - there's a myriad of different headphones out there and I'm sure there may be models which could suit me better, but I don't feel the need to explore them.

And just for fun, Drew mentioned he uses DT770s and DT990s so here's there comparison:

Image

Blue DT770 - Red DT990 - Green DT880

And Arpy mentioned he had used HD-25s:

Image

I can see why he wants to upgrade :lol:

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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by OliverATX »

Hands down the Status Audio CB-1 as you cannot beat the price and will guaranteed be surprised at the quality and sound. https://www.status.co/products/cb1
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by Sam Spoons »

OliverATX wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:52 pm Hands down the Status Audio CB-1 as you cannot beat the price and will guaranteed be surprised at the quality and sound. https://www.status.co/products/cb1

I'm currently in dispute with Status over their description of their 'Between Pro'* IEMs. They say "Hybrid Triple Driver, Two balanced armature drivers + one dynamic driver in each earbud (all good so far). Ultra-wide frequency response with stunning clarity." And... "a frequency response of 10-30,000 Hz (which I didn't notice when I was buying :blush: ) and 'Audiophile' audio quality (which I did and should have set the alarm bells ringing). Then they sent me this FR graph (which is not, as far as I can see available in the website) :-

Image

I emailed asking for some explanation of the discrepancy between the 10-30,000 claims and the graph, when I got a non committal reply I asked them to place my order on hold until they had answered satisfactorily, I got a reply to the effect that my order was, indeed, on hold... The "Between Pros" arrived on Saturday afternoon :headbang:

I'm guessing you can see why I am regretting my late night purchase even before it arrived... It may well be that they, and the 'free' Status Core ANC BT headphones are quite decent for casual listening (sorry, it was another late night post above where I commented that I had bought them) but their customer service is appalling and I could not recommend buying a paperclip from them.
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Re: Natural sounding headphones.

Post by OliverATX »

Sam Spoons wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:07 pm
OliverATX wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:52 pm Hands down the Status Audio CB-1 as you cannot beat the price and will guaranteed be surprised at the quality and sound. https://www.status.co/products/cb1

I'm currently in dispute with Status over their description of their 'Between Pro'* IEMs....

Yea that looks ugly. I do not know the Inbetween Pro line. Still the CB-1 are fantastic, especially for the price.
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