Gospel.

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Gospel.

Post by Arpangel »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFPvWoJ1wmY

No matter what music we’re involved in, of any type, this is an example of what we should be "aiming" for, the feel, the vibe, is the most important thing, in "any" music.
I’ve always been interested in electronics, but no matter how left field it may be, how off the planet, without this level of emotional content, it’s a failure.
My job, as I see it, is to make electronics sound like this, to inject human feel and emotion, I should be looking to do this at every stage, this is how I respond to, and judge, any instrument I use, can it have the ability to move me, in this way.
If I’m playing a drone on a modular, or a piano improvisation, the challenge is to put the music in the right context to start with, what am I showing the listener? Gospel music is church music, that’s what it is, that’s it’s starting point, my music also has a starting point, it has to convey a message, it has to touch the soul of someone, somewhere, and hopefully, make a human connection, that can be an apocalyptic feeling, a sad feeling, a happy feeling, a feeling of love, of affection, life, or death, doesn’t matter, but it has to have "Feeling" with a capital F, as I said, doesn’t matter what music we’re involved in, without these qualities, if it doesn’t have them, we’ve failed as musicians.
So many people, so much music falls on this level, it gets submerged in some secondary toxic sub-text, that detracts from the music, the overwhelming ego of the player, the unimportant issues around the instruments, and the techniques used to play them, totally irrelevant, they get in the way of the music.
These thoughts I’m putting here this morning, just keep them in mind, just keep them in mind, when your playing and recording, you may think you do, but it’s way too easy to get bogged down in other issues, and loose sight of what we’re actually trying to do, ultimately it is to make a human connection with someone, our audience, we aren’t just playing for ourselves.
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Re: Gospel.

Post by tea for two »

From a youtube comment

"I had 4 semesters of harmony and can play 10 Chopin etudes 3 Liszt etudes and lots of other stuff but i cant figure out the heartfelt harmonies I often hear at church."

I think Liszt, Chopin would loved Gospel Piano.
I can imagine Bach, Handel falling into rapture upon hearing pure GospelChoir in a church interpreting 17th 18th century hymns.

::

Living in London I've had the opportunity to be in church to hear GospelChoir. I adore Female GospelChoir.
I can't deny when I hear live Female Gospel Choir the hair stands upon my arms, neck.

Styles of Gospel Piano
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YHItWFbU7-A
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ribnpn-ezYA

::

I'm not religious.
So I couldn't do any justice to Gospel Piano. And I don't have the keyboard skills nor musical ability.

Yet what I have borrowed from Gospel is the Heartfelt singers, musicians.
This may not translate to every track I make, as I'm wanting to convey different feelings in different tracks, with I hope some sincerity.

I heard a quote along the lines of "All Artform is an excuse to connect with people."
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Re: Gospel.

Post by Murray B »

One of the most formative experiences I had in my guitar playing was joining a project that I saw advertised on a notice board in the bank in the early 1990's. Derby Afro-Caribbean Arts were advertising for musicians to join a gospel choir project. They accepted me - a skinny white 20 year old atheist without question and I learnt more about harmony, arrangements and playing in an ensemble in the 3 months of the project than I had before in my musical adventures.

Just thinking about it now, my hairs stand on end - the experience of playing with a remarkable set of players and singers, the vocal harmonies and passion of the musicians - properly amazing.
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Re: Gospel.

Post by Arpangel »

Murray B wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:54 am One of the most formative experiences I had in my guitar playing was joining a project that I saw advertised on a notice board in the bank in the early 1990's. Derby Afro-Caribbean Arts were advertising for musicians to join a gospel choir project. They accepted me - a skinny white 20 year old atheist without question and I learnt more about harmony, arrangements and playing in an ensemble in the 3 months of the project than I had before in my musical adventures.

Just thinking about it now, my hairs stand on end - the experience of playing with a remarkable set of players and singers, the vocal harmonies and passion of the musicians - properly amazing.

I know exactly how you must have felt, completely.
I felt like that when I joined my local church choir, learnt so much, and the feeling of being surrounded by other singers, that immersive feeling, like you’re literally surrounded by harmony.
My choirmaster was a major influence on me, one of the best, there was nothing he couldn’t play, in my life, I’d say he was one-off the most helpful and kind people I’ve ever met.
After this kind of involvement, I found it very difficult when I left the church, I spent the whole day crying, it was like my life had ended.
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Re: Gospel.

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

every corner of the world can be made a better place with a good Hammond player! :lol:8-)
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Re: Gospel.

Post by RichardT »

Gospel has some very particular harmonies in it. I know jazz harmony very well but there are things in gospel arrangements I don’t understand. I bought a book on gospel harmony, but I didn’t get very far with it. Maybe one day…
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Re: Gospel.

Post by Arpangel »

RichardT wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:02 pm Gospel has some very particular harmonies in it. I know jazz harmony very well but there are things in gospel arrangements I don’t understand. I bought a book on gospel harmony, but I didn’t get very far with it. Maybe one day…

This is an area I wouldn’t even begin to attempt, but I fully appreciate, and enjoy, the results.

:thumbup
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Re: Gospel.

Post by Arpangel »

This. Morning has been like a roller-coaster, I was brought down by Mr Eno in The Lounge, but now I’ve been dragged up good and proper by this dude,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt9e5pS4Zj8

I’m not going to give up music, which things like this tend to make me want to do, now I’m sitting here wracking my brains about how I can get this vibe into my own music.

:-|:shocked::o
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Re: Gospel.

Post by tea for two »

Unless have Soul, it's just gonna be a busted flush.
Even if have all the theory all the technical skills in the World.

Gospel is a whole different level.

::

Soul is something Black musicians are born with.
Perhaps it's the Universe's way of balancing all the downtrodden they experience.

::

I'd love to make a Deep Gospel, Jazz, Soul, also Reggae record.
I know I can't because I don't have Soul.
I can't even make Northern Soul.

I'm not Soulful as those hundreds, thousands of Non Black musicians bands of various colours including white that make Blues, Jazz, Soul.

I'm not anywhere near Soulful as Bill Evans, Chet Baker, Stan Getz, Dave Brubeck, Paul Desmond, Rod Temperton, Pete Bellotte, Gary Moore.
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Re: Gospel.

Post by Arpangel »

tea for two wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:37 am Unless have Soul, it's just gonna be a busted flush.
Even if have all the theory all the technical skills in the World.

Gospel is a whole different level.

::

Soul is something Black musicians are born with.
Perhaps it's the Universe's way of balancing all the downtrodden they experience.

::

I'd love to make a Deep Gospel, Jazz, Soul, also Reggae record.
I know I can't because I don't have Soul.
I can't even make Northern Soul.

I'm not Soulful as those hundreds, thousands of Non Black musicians bands of various colours including white that make Blues, Jazz, Soul.

I'm not anywhere near Soulful as Bill Evans, Chet Baker, Stan Getz, Dave Brubeck, Paul Desmond, Rod Temperton, Pete Bellotte, Gary Moore.

Nothing in the whole universe could make up for how downtrodden black people were/are, nothing, I’m sure we both know that.
It’s possible to be soulful in other ways, it’s just different, as I said, if your music doesn’t have it in some form, or another, it tends to not work, from Cage to Beethoven, to the latest pop record, it has to have a feel, a vide, it’s difficult to define, but Miles Davis, at auditions used ask to see someone walk, I want to see you walk.
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Re: Gospel.

Post by tea for two »

Could Bach, Handel, Beethoven, Mahler, Berlioz,
Delibes, Sibelius, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, Puccini, Verdi, Wagner compose Gospel choir?
I don't know.
They could make a go at it by starting with a Hymn.

::

Vangelis, Ennio Morricone, John Williams, Miklos Rosza, Nino Rota, Henri Mancini, Danny Elfman, Thomas Newman, Howard Shore, can make brilliant Choir, Choral.
However they would be fairly dire in composing Gospel choir I feel.

::

Filums, Games, Netflix serials OST are chokka with some Choir, Choral.
Any tom dick n harry composer can do Choir, Choral.

But Gospel.

These composers would be bricking it, if commissioned to compose Gospel choir.
I feel they would fail miserably lol. Even with help from samples.
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Re: Gospel.

Post by Arpangel »

tea for two wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:04 pm Filums, Games, Netflix serials OST are chokka with some Choir, Choral.
Any tom dick n harry composer can do Choir, Choral.

Not true, and only boys can sing it, not girls.
Says me, running for cover.

tea for two wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:04 pm
But Gospel.

These composers would be bricking it, if commissioned to compose Gospel choir.
I feel they would fail miserably lol. Even with help from samples.

I wouldn’t ask them in the first place.

I’m off to peel more vegetables, I’m in the spare room shirking it, and having a quiet beer.
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Re: Gospel.

Post by tea for two »

South African anti apartheid hero Archbishop Desmond Tutu (90) passed away today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-59793726

Desmond Tutu didn't want anyone to be down, sad. Desmond Tutu wanted people to laugh.
Here is Desmond Tutu laughing in 2014.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m66hwxypv8w

::

Desmond's (Desmoooond) was a brilliantly funny english sitcom.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8uAPK7livSY

This song makes me smile reminds me of Archbishop Desmond Tutu :
Don't mess with my Toot Toot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MetJEXcXkYQ

::

So what is Soul.

Soul can mean different things to different people.

To me Soul means no matter what hardships been through, Soul uplifts others. Soul puts aside own sorrows to do something for others.

Soul doesn't drag anyone down. Soul is never misery guts. Soul doesn't whinge.

Soul is indomnitable taking all the knocks life has to offer then saying I Still Survive. I can still do something for someone.

Soul is deeper than feelings.

Soul is beyond care concern generosity kindness.

Soul is deeper than spirituality.

::

I have a Female Black chum similar to Archbishop Desmond Tutu.
The emotional physical horrors She personally experienced happened to her and her immediate family.
Yet the first thing She does is make me laugh.

::

Thus, Have to have Soul to be able to compose Gospel.
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Re: Gospel.

Post by shufflebeat »

I'm going to be charitable and put this conversation down to sentimentality borne of hangover.

Gospel is great music, sometimes, played by great musicians, sometimes.

Musical "theory" and the orchestral music it facilitates is often an extrapolation of patterns observed in good music, impressive but twice (at least) removed from the co-ordinated bird-song that music is at it's best.

Structured music empowers less talented musicians, like Andrew Lloyd Webber to emulated the greatness of others by following the rules and painting by numbers but people who go person to person rather than person to paper put their bucket directly into the well and drink thereof.

That comes in all shapes and sizes and good Gospel is a great example.
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