I started pontificating on this on a post over in the guitar forum https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=80648 , but since I have somehow accidentally started working on it, I think a proper build thread sits better here.
Here's the plan:
The first test was could I steam the neck off the old guitar-shaped-sort-of-instrument. It turns out I could:
(Lesson for self, give the steam more time to work and you won't need to be so heavy handed).
Clamping the neck to straighten things off after extraction:
I hope you showed the original guitar proper respect, as well as congratulating it on its selfless contribution to new life.
Oh..
and at first sight, I read that as 'Project Guano'
Folderol wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:04 pm
I hope you showed the original guitar proper respect, as well as congratulating it on its selfless contribution to new life.
I'm thinking of ritually sacrificing it on a bonfire.
Wonks wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:33 pm
The added extra two tuners are 'interesting'.
I presume they will be removed?
Two of your clamps looks suspiciously like repurposed silicon sealant dispenser guns.
The extra tuners were for two extra top strings. It was an experiment.
They will be going and I've got some left over veneer that I will use to re-face the headstock.
The clamps do look like that, and work on the same principle, but they are designed as clamps and are far more robust.
Eddy Deegan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:24 pm
I'm looking forward to seeing/hearing how this experiment turns out
Seeing, yes. Hearing, no.
I presume you are keeping it nylon strung? Steel strings have at least 2-3 times the tension of nylon so you’d probably end up with quite a bowed neck if you did given the lack of truss rod.
And work back from your bridge height to determine the required neck angle. It will need more angle than it had when it was a classical-style guitar neck.
Eddy Deegan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:24 pm
I'm looking forward to seeing/hearing how this experiment turns out
Seeing, yes. Hearing, no.
I presume you are keeping it nylon strung? Steel strings have at least 2-3 times the tension of nylon so you’d probably end up with quite a bowed neck if you did given the lack of truss rod.
And work back from your bridge height to determine the required neck angle. It will need more angle than it had when it was a classical-style guitar neck.
Actually I was going to go with Nashville tuning. That and the fact that it's a very short scale (it was a half-size guitar) should keep the tension down.
Neck angle is going to need to be worked out once I've got the drum cut down and the main centre block roughly to size and shape.
Half-size doesn't mean half the scale length. 1/2 size scale length is typically around 530mm as opposed to around 650mm, so roughly 4/5th the scale length. Even a '1/8' classical guitar has a scale length about 2/3 of standard.
And Nashville tuning doesn't necessarily means much less tension. You're using thinner strings but under pretty much normal tension to get the required pitches.
A D'Addario acoustic 10-26 Nashville set has a total tension of just over 55kg, whilst an equivalent 10-47 acoustic set is 60kg. Whilst a set of D'Addario extra hard tension classicals strings is 41kg and a standard set 39kg.
If you tune to a normal E4 tuning for the high E, then the string tension tension will be a lot lower, but the strings will be pretty floppy and you probably won't have enough tension to keep the bridge in place or give much of a 'twang' to the sound. 3-4 semitones up would give you roughly the same string tension and string feel.
Don't forget you'll probably need to make a new a new nut, or the current one will need its slots filled with CA and baking soda and re-cut to match the much thinner strings. I doubt whether you can buy a replacement classical width nut cut for steel strings and Nashville tuning, so a new one would have to start from a blank.
Wonks wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:49 am
Half-size doesn't mean half the scale length. 1/2 size scale length is typically around 530mm as opposed to around 650mm, so roughly 4/5th the scale length. Even a '1/8' classical guitar has a scale length about 2/3 of standard.
My first confession of this project is that I didn't measure the scale length before I took it apart. But i'll do that later.
And Nashville tuning doesn't necessarily means much less tension. You're using thinner strings but under pretty much normal tension to get the required pitches.
A D'Addario acoustic 10-26 Nashville set has a total tension of just over 55kg, whilst an equivalent 10-47 acoustic set is 60kg. Whilst a set of D'Addario extra hard tension classicals strings is 41kg and a standard set 39kg.
I'll do some maths later.
Don't forget you'll probably need to make a new a new nut, or the current one will need its slots filled with CA and baking soda and re-cut to match the much thinner strings. I doubt whether you can buy a replacement classical width nut cut for steel strings and Nashville tuning, so a new one would have to start from a blank.
A new nut is on the list, if only because the current one has two extra notches.
Scale length is 20.25".
So assuming the d'addario tensions are based on a 25.5" scale, and assuming that I'm remembering correctly that the relationship between tension and length is linear, then a set of Nashville strings should give me about 44kg.
I'll give that a go I reckon.
blinddrew wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:07 pm
Scale length is 20.25".
So assuming the d'addario tensions are based on a 25.5" scale, and assuming that I'm remembering correctly that the relationship between tension and length is linear, then a set of Nashville strings should give me about 44kg.
I'll give that a go I reckon.
It will depend on the tuning you use. Tuned so the top open string is E4, then that seems about right. But the strings will be quite slack feeling. You’d need to tune to between G4 or G#4 to get the strings feeling normal, but then the overall tension would be back up in the 55kg area.
You could of course make a slightly thicker set of Nashville strings up to get a bit more tension in the strings.
The neck is shorter than standard and it joins at the 12th fret, both if which reduces the bending moment, and it’s wider than an a steel-strung acoustic neck so has more crosse-sectional strength. These all mitigate for the lack of a truss rod or other neck strengthening.
I'm fairly certain I had this strung with steel strings for a while as well, but I can't recall.
We shall see how it goes.
If it does go pear-shaped then the outlay will be the cost of sandpaper, a new nut, and a set of strings.
Looks to be quite a high rim on the tom. You’ll need to make a pretty tall saddle, which will need to be reasonably wide from front to back, to stop it from falling over.
Sam Spoons wrote: ↑Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:13 pm
50 years ago I strung my classical up with steel strings, 9's or 10's IIRC, and it suffered no ill effects.
But i'll do that later.
TBF I did replace the whole guitar about 46 years ago...
