Common misconceptions of the music business

[awjoe]

And a corollary to this is that I think, and this might not be a popular opinion, if you want to be successful* then image is more important than talent.

Yes - the music business is just another branch of show business. The more successful bands that I've played with have been bands that put on a show rather than just play songs. However, I would say that you need a modicum of talent of some kind to be able to project an image successfully.

Yes.

Songwriting skill, musical skill, put on a show skill. If you have those three, you've ticked enough boxes to appeal to most of the people most of the time. Think of a band's listenership as a pyramidal demographic, with the musical sophisticates, fewer in number at the top, who want their music to be clever as well as catchy, and the less demanding but more numerous listeners who just want to tap their foot and sing along. If the songs are well-crafted, the instruments well-played, and the show engaging, then almost everybody goes home happy. There's one more factor for me, though, and it's more important than the hoopla of performance art, and that's innovation.

[RichardT]

Yes, innovation is crucial. If an artist is not innovating, or at least trying to innovate, then for sure they are creating a product, not art.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Innovation is not crucial for success. Certainly not in pop music anyway. And there are degrees of innovation. Again, Roxy Music are a good example of varying degrees of innovation.

[RichardT]

Innovation is not crucial for success. Certainly not in pop music anyway. And there are degrees of innovation. Again, Roxy Music are a good example of varying degrees of innovation.

For sure, innovation is not necessary for success, probably the opposite. Just listen to the hundreds of reggaeton tunes that all sound the same….

[Arpangel]

They didn't do anything remarkable until 1980. Up til then it was musically derivative.

They didn’t do anything remarkable after 1973.
Derivative? of what? At the time, compared to what was happening around them, they sounded like nothing on earth.
They also didn’t "pay their dues" they held back until the album was just right, and then burst onto the scene, they were never a pub band, they only broke when Islands Chris Blackwell reluctantly signed them, and they were given a big push by Richard Williams and John Peel.
Bob Harris did them no favours, and said "if that’s the future of Rock n Roll I don’t want to hear it" but unless it was blue jeans beards and sincerity he didn’t want to know.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

It was old fashioned dance music until they got to songs like "Oh yeah".

[awjoe]

Innovation is not crucial for success. Certainly not in pop music anyway. And there are degrees of innovation.

I always thought that innovation was a big factor in the success of the Beatles. But like you say, 'not crucial for success' - it was the other factors, mostly.

[Arpangel]

It was old fashioned dance music until they got to songs like "Oh yeah".

There were elements of that, but it was in the image, not directly in the music, it was a collage, a tacky pastiche, very OTT that worked, and the music was something that didn’t make me think "oh yeah, it sounds like X" Remake/Remodel is there to tell you what’s it’s all about.
Virginia Plain, when I heard that, it changed everything for me, the synthesiser solo was a revelation, it had amazing feel, and vibe, but was very simple, unlike what others were doing at the time.
Eno was surrounded by the likes of Rick Wakeman Keith Emerson etc etc, Bands like Supertramp, Yes, and all those synth players, like Jarre, Vangelis, who’s work I admire now, but compared to what Eno was doing at the time, they all sounded distinctly dated and cheesy. It was very clear, Eno was rewriting the rules, not only in his approach to synthesisers, but in every way, regarding contemporary music at the time, when he teamed up with Robert Fripp, things moved on even further, the whole landscape changed, I thought yeah, thank f**k, at last, and then this amazing roller coaster started, Punk.
Roxy was like the carnival float that lead them all in.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

@Arpangel yes that's what I was trying to say. As James was saying too. Image.

Innovation is not crucial for success. Certainly not in pop music anyway. And there are degrees of innovation.

I always thought that innovation was a big factor in the success of the Beatles. But like you say, 'not crucial for success' - it was the other factors, mostly.

Yea that's a good point. I guess there is a balance between innovation and... giving people what they're used to? Not sure how to phrase it. Beatles are a good example. They were doing rock'n'roll but obviously innovated on that. One thing that struck me about Let it Be is their encycopaedic knowledge of rock'n'roll songs. They could play any of those songs inside out, even doing pastiches. While also being well able to actually rock. Amazing. Such a work ethic.

[Arpangel]

@Arpangel yes that's what I was trying to say. As James was saying too. Image.

Innovation is not crucial for success. Certainly not in pop music anyway. And there are degrees of innovation.

I always thought that innovation was a big factor in the success of the Beatles. But like you say, 'not crucial for success' - it was the other factors, mostly.

Yea that's a good point. I guess there is a balance between innovation and... giving people what they're used to? Not sure how to phrase it. Beatles are a good example. They were doing rock'n'roll but obviously innovated on that. One thing that struck me about Let it Be is their encycopaedic knowledge of rock'n'roll songs. They could play any of those songs inside out, even doing pastiches. While also being well able to actually rock. Amazing. Such a work ethic.

When working in the commercial arena, you have to be very careful, you can’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
In my case, it’s not only the baby that gets thrown out, it’s the house too.

[MixAndMatch]

they only broke when Islands Chris Blackwell

He used to post on here I think.

[Arpangel]

they only broke when Islands Chris Blackwell

He used to post on here I think.

Really? How interesting, seriously.

[shufflebeat]

See- Nietzsche: Clapton is God.

FTFY

[MixAndMatch]

they only broke when Islands Chris Blackwell

He used to post on here I think.

Really? How interesting, seriously.

Yes. He was quite good on the drums too if I recall. How he found time to learn drums whilst running Island Records is, quite frankly, remarkable. Respect.

[James Perrett]

they only broke when Islands Chris Blackwell

He used to post on here I think.

Really? How interesting, seriously.

Yes, Chris Blackwell used to post on here. But there's more than one Chris Blackwell in the music biz.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/316742-Chris-Blackwell-2

https://www.discogs.com/artist/30414-Chris-Blackwell

[zenguitar]

Yes, Chris Blackwell used to post on here. But there's more than one Chris Blackwell in the music biz.

I guess you might call this a misconception of the music business

Andy

[Martin Walker]

There are indeed at least TWO Chris Blackwells in the music business.

This is 'our' Chris, the extremely talented drummer, who has posted on the SOS Forums:

http://www.chrisblackwell.co.uk/Biography.html

Martin

[Arpangel]

There are indeed at least TWO Chris Blackwells in the music business.

This is 'our' Chris, the extremely talented drummer, who has posted on the SOS Forums:

http://www.chrisblackwell.co.uk/Biography.html

Martin

Yes, I remember SOS Chris, he’s not the one I was talking about.

[Radiophonic]

Since the beatles came up. I have a question. Around the beatles there was the phenomenon of those screaming girls. I question whether this was completely organic, there might have been a certain amount of astroturfing going on to market them?

[Sam Spoons]

Not sure what you mean by "astroturfing" but I don't think it was contrived and the band certainly did not like it, it was a large part of the reason they quit touring and playing live.

[Radiophonic]

Not sure what you mean by "astroturfing" but I don't think it was contrived and the band certainly did not like it, it was a large part of the reason they quit touring and playing live.

What I mean by that is that it was essentially a 'forced meme' that did not come about in an organic manner. As far as I understand the beatles were a central part in how youth culture shifted post war. I have the suspicion the images they mediaized were deliberatly created to shift things in certain directions. Dont get me wrong, the beatles might be the best rock band ever. Still I have trouble believing that this youth movement of extaticly screaming girls was completly organic. Just my impression.

[Sam Spoons]

I think it was a natural progression, the Beatles got a following, the media reported on it and it snowballed. The teenage hysteria was a peripheral phenomena, related but not directly caused.

[Radiophonic]

I think it was a natural progression, the Beatles got a following, the media reported on it and it snowballed. The teenage hysteria was a peripheral phenomena, related but not directly caused.

I see. Maybe it just that I am too far removed from the whole thing. What is undoubtably true is that they had a huge impact on culture and still have. The whole thing is quite impressive. If it was a snowballing effect, we might not have seen anything like this since.

[Sam Spoons]

They were part of the process that started with the early rock and rollers and the 'invention' of teenagers...