EQ monitors to sound like NS10

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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Arpangel wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:56 amBut where’s it all going Hugh, how good can a speaker be?

Clearly the aim is to sound identical to the source in every situation... and few if any can do that yet. There's still room for improvement, superbly accurate though modern monitors can be!

I have to say, a lot of the modern ones I hear....

I've no idea what you've heard or where you've heard them, so I can't really comment. I get to listening over extended periods to a lot of monitors in surroundings that I know well. All I can say is what I said previously; the best monitors now are streaks ahead of where they were when I started in this business. The improvements in so many areas are substantial.

As for the mainstream offerings, budget, mid price range, there’s always way too much of everything, especially bass, to call them anything approaching "neutral" is a joke.

The clue is in that term, 'budget'... I object to manufacturers calling their budget speakers 'monitors' because they just aren't in the sense that I understand the term. I wouldn't consider any speaker I've heard as being of true monitor quality speaker below a couple of grand, minimum, and you need to be well over 5k before you're approaching the peak of what can be achieved today. That's not to say there aren't some good models at 1k or less, but being 'impressive for the money' isn't the same thing as being as good as it can be!

If I thought I could improve my sound, that much, I’d have done it by now, but I don’t think it’s worth it, from a technical point of view, and a creative one.

Sure... but deciding that you personally won't appreciate or benefit from a modern high-quality monitor speaker doesn't justify claiming that "speaker technology hasn’t improved as much as we’d like to think..."

I see your "with respect" Hugh, and I raise you "with the greatest respect"

:D8-)
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by RichardT »

Arpangel wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:56 am
Hugh Robjohns wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:37 pm
And of course, there are even better monitors available today than the ones I have before me here.

So with respect... you're spouting nonsense....

But where’s it all going Hugh, how good can a speaker be? how good do we need it to be, I have to say, a lot of the modern ones I hear, not in my basement, but in better rooms, don’t impress, there is always something that draws your attention to the sound, in an irritating way. As for the mainstream offerings, budget, mid price range, there’s always way too much of everything, especially bass, to call them anything approaching "neutral" is a joke.
If I thought I could improve my sound, that much, I’d have done it by now, but I don’t think it’s worth it, from a technical point of view, and a creative one.
I see your "with respect" Hugh, and I raise you "with the greatest respect"

:)

I think if you did get better monitoring you would probably change your mind very quickly on that! Using your Behringer monitors you’re simply not hearing things properly. But it’s a perfectly valid choice to spend your money elsewhere, we are all different and have different priorities.
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by wearashirt »

Alright thanks for the golden insights! So here's another question. What does that make of the yamaha hs5-8?

Do you guys still find it worthwhile to have any mid-rangy speaker if it doesn't represent a realistic sound, and if there's other effective ways to judge the midrange anyway?

This is a ROOKIE question by the way. Thanks for all the help.
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

wearashirt wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:49 pmSo here's another question. What does that make of the yamaha hs5-8?

It's a budget active speaker and sub. Good value for money, albeit with a slightly confused midrange presentation IMHO.

Do you guys still find it worthwhile to have any mid-rangy speaker if it doesn't represent a realistic sound, and if there's other effective ways to judge the midrange anyway?


As I said at the start of the thread, I find turning the monitoring level right down and/or listening form the hallway outside the studio just as effective at judging the midrange balance. And I also recommend reviewing the mix on a phone or laptop.

And it's much better and more informative to listen in a variety of different locations than to listen to a variety of different speakers in just one location!
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by James Perrett »

Similarly to Hugh, I find listening to a mix at a variety of volumes to be enough. At low volumes our ears do the equivalent of listening through a mid range boosted speaker as they are less sensitive to high and low frequencies at low volume.

When I set up my home system a few months ago I tried a variety of speakers - including the NS10's. They didn't allow me to hear into a mix in the way that the LS3/5a's do. Even the humble Kef Celeste III's were far superior to the NS10's in my opinion.
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by Arpangel »

RichardT wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:15 am I think if you did get better monitoring you would probably change your mind very quickly on that! Using your Behringer monitors you’re simply not hearing things properly. But it’s a perfectly valid choice to spend your money elsewhere, we are all different and have different priorities.

I’m hampered by not being able to treat the room, hence my reluctance to get high end monitors.
But I’ve heard some, here, express the opinion that it doesn’t really matter if I can’t, a better speaker would be worthwhile anyway.
Another factor to consider, big expensive monitors are a hard act to smuggle in, not like a reverb pedal or a bit of modular.

:D
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by Aled Hughes »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:01 am. I wouldn't consider any speaker I've heard as being of true monitor quality speaker below a couple of grand, minimum

The smaller Neumanns don’t quite cut it as true monitors for you?
Is that simply a matter of the LF extension needed to be a ‘true monitor’?

That is, they could only be considered a true complete full range monitoring system with a subwoofer (and therefore of course bringing the system cost to a bit over that £2k)?
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Arpangel wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:59 pmBut I’ve heard some, here, express the opinion that it doesn’t really matter if I can’t, a better speaker would be worthwhile anyway.

Clearly, an expensive monitor speaker with low distortion, great resolution, extended bandwidth, yada yada, will be 'better' than a budget speaker in the sense of giving you more information to work with... And hence a better speaker is worthwhile anyway...

However, if used in a poor acoustic environment you will never achieve the full quality benefits that the speaker is capable of... so a substantial chunk of the high purchase price will be completely wasted as much of the capability can never be realised in that environment.

Another factor to consider, big expensive monitors are a hard act to smuggle in...

I just say I'm reviewing them... :bouncy:
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Aled Hughes wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:07 pmThe smaller Neumanns don’t quite cut it as true monitors for you?

They are really great speakers, and have a quality that punches considerably above their price tag which makes them even more attractive. So although the KH120s cost around £1k a pair, I'd say they are directly comparable to many speakers costing £1500-2000.

I've used KH120s on location recording sessions where space was at a premium and I rate them highly... but if I'm being paid I'd prefer to mix and master on something considerably more capable.

That is, they could only be considered a true complete full range monitoring system with a subwoofer (and therefore of course bringing the system cost to a bit over that £2k)?

A sub (in a decent room) would certainly help considerably for high-quality work... although I'd still prefer KH310s as a minimum!
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10’

Post by RichardT »

I own KH120s (no sub) and some more expensive speakers, KEF LS50Ws -the difference between them is not really in the lower frequencies but in higher resolution, imaging and better dynamics generally. LS50Ws are probably at the bottom of the range of speakers that might count as ‘monitors’, and spending more would get me something even better.
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by Arpangel »

One for Hugh, I know it’s not possible for you to make specific recommendations, but if you had to set aside a budget regarding a home studio, you know my situation, for a pair of "monitors" that were worthy of that name, what would that be? a rough ball-park figure, to get something decent.
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Re: EQ monitors to sound like NS10

Post by Mike Stranks »

Arpangel wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:01 am One for Hugh, I know it’s not possible for you to make specific recommendations, but if you had to set aside a budget regarding a home studio, you know my situation, for a pair of "monitors" that were worthy of that name, what would that be? a rough ball-park figure, to get something decent.

Hugh answered that earlier in the thread. He said:

I wouldn't consider any speaker I've heard as being of true monitor quality speaker below a couple of grand, minimum, and you need to be well over 5k before you're approaching the peak of what can be achieved today. That's not to say there aren't some good models at 1k or less, but being 'impressive for the money' isn't the same thing as being as good as it can be!

NB. That's per speaker! :shock:
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