Pitch shifting without delay.

[Arpangel]

Is there such a thing?
I’m fed up with this delay, between when you play and when you hear the shifted note, it’s only acceptable if you mix the processed signal really low.
It doesn’t seem to matter what unit you use, everything I’ve owned has this really annoying delay, I’ve just accepted it as part of the way it works.
Eventides, no better, Lexicons, right through pedals etc, it’s always there.
Has anyone tried anything that at least gets this down to negligible levels?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Is there such a thing?

No. Yae cannae change the laws of physics!

[RichardT]

The only way to do it is to pitch shift a midi signal not the audio. That can be done almost instantaneously.

[Arpangel]

The only way to do it is to pitch shift a midi signal not the audio. That can be done almost instantaneously.

If you do it that way, it just sounds like more notes are being played!
And you can only do it with Midi instruments, not voices or anything acoustic.
The tonal artefacts of pitch shifting are great, that’s what I like, it’s just the delay that bugs me.
Actually, with voices it’s not so noticeable, it sort of blurs a bit, but it’s with synths that it’s really obvious, it’s OK if you want that as an effect, but not all the time.

[forumuser931182]

Apparently when Pat Metheny used one of the very early guitar synths it had a really long delay when it tracked the guitar note so he had to play everything slightly ahead of the rest of the band. If you do this the pitch shifted output will be in time and then your unshifted signal can go through a simple time delay to perfectly sync. Simple.
Another good point is you’ll finish the gig before rest of the band so can get to the bar first.

[Arpangel]

Apparently when Pat Metheny used one of the very early guitar synths it had a really long delay when it tracked the guitar note so he had to play everything slightly ahead of the rest of the band. If you do this the pitch shifted output will be in time and then your unshifted signal can go through a simple time delay to perfectly sync. Simple.
Another good point is you’ll finish the gig before rest of the band so can get to the bar first.

Oh man, please, you cannot imagine me doing that, even if my musicianship was good enough!

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm obviously no Pat Metheny* but using my Variax live in some of the more complex voicings, especially with a bit of internal re-tuning, you do have to compensate for the latency and it's actually quite easy to get into the habit of playing ahead - as long as you have decent monitoring.

* contender for understatement of the year.

[N i g e l]

Synth string patches have a lot of apparent latency due to the slow attack
but I didnt realise how much my playing was automatically compensating for this untill I saw it on the computer.

[Arpangel]

I'm obviously no Pat Metheny* but using my Variax live in some of the more complex voicings, especially with a bit of internal re-tuning, you do have to compensate for the latency and it's actually quite easy to get into the habit of playing ahead - as long as you have decent monitoring.

* contender for understatement of the year.

I don’t understand, how can you compensate? no matter how fast you play, you’ll still be out of time.?

[Sam Spoons]

Presumably it is the same as with pipe organs? If the original note sound without latency you would need to set the pitch shifting box to 100% wet and split the original signal off to a delay so that it was delayed by the same amount as the pitch shifted note. Then you just have to play ahead of the beat by just enough for the notes to sound at the appropriate time.

[Arpangel]

Presumably it is the same as with pipe organs? If the original note sound without latency you would need to set the pitch shifting box to 100% wet and split the original signal off to a delay so that it was delayed by the same amount as the pitch shifted note. Then you just have to play ahead of the beat by just enough for the notes to sound at the appropriate time.

Thanks Sam, all clear!
The thing about the organ, is that all you hear is the original sound, but yes, if it’s a very big cathedral, it can be a big delay.

[Martin Walker]

Synth string patches have a lot of apparent latency due to the slow attack
but I didnt realise how much my playing was automatically compensating for this untill I saw it on the computer.

So true!

I've also been surprised at how much earlier the note-on's of some of my string parts are than the rest of the instruments.

It's actually so much easier to play in a slow attack string part rather than attempt to draw it in, because you do compensate for the feel automatically.