Eddy Deegan, meet Nina, and then get your credit card out

[Martin Walker]

New analog synth coming to NAMM 2022

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lmrAHSgHwdM

Nina is a 12-voice analogue polysynth with motorised knobs - when you select a preset, all of them will immediately move to their correction positions. As you can see and hear, patch morphing is an option, too.

See what you think Eddy, and of course everybody else

Martin

[BJG145]

Nina is a 12-voice analogue polysynth with motorised knobs

...motorised...knobs...

Sensory overload.

[resistorman]

Nina is a 12-voice analogue polysynth with motorised knobs

...motorised...knobs...

Sensory overload.

Just try to replace them when they go bad It would make finding obsolete ICs seem trivial.

[ajay_m]

But why? If behringer could put 32 rotary encoders with led collars in the bcr2000 for £150 why not just go that way and have no moving parts. Even if the underlying circuitry is analogue you could drive that with those digital pot chips and have a design that has almost no failure points.

[muzines]

Internet forums: "Where's all the innovation? Why aren't companies trying something new? Why are they falling back on the same old things?"

Company tries something new.

Internet forums: "What's the point? Who needs this? Who asked for this? Why don't they just use this other thing that other companies have already done that was fine?"

I'm all for companies trying stuff, especially if they genuinely think it works well. And many of the people who demand innovative products just don't realise how conservative this segment is. Innovation has often done very poorly in the market (eg, "Wavestation? Meh, it doesn't even have a piano sound...").

Is this particular feature genuinely useful, or just a gimmick that isn't that great? No idea - but when a few more people use it, I'm sure we'll find out. It's not something that has never been thought of before, it's just a tricky one to implement well, and reliably, and is probably expensive too.

Honestly, I'm fine with people trying out more experiments in the user interface of these things (especially in the softwaresynth controller space, which is... dire...)

[Eddy Deegan]

I love the concept! I'd prefer the teaser not to have wild panning on the sound but of course that's not a reflection on the product at all, just the choices of the demo creators.

I will be watching this with interest, thank you Martin

[Folderol]

Quite honestly I'm not impressed. The same can be readily done with MIDI-learned setups on any decent soft-synth - so there's your visual with no actual moving parts to wear out.

[OneWorld]

Sounds like a glorified wah-wah pedal - there's a whole lotta wee-wahin' goin' on

Sounds like a bit of a one trick pony sort of thing

[Eddy Deegan]

Sounds like a glorified wah-wah pedal - there's a whole lotta wee-wahin' goin' on

Sounds like a bit of a one trick pony sort of thing

A demo does not a synth make, as we saw (and sadly heard) with the Andersons video on the Behringer UB-Xa.

What I took from the Nina short teaser wasn't the sound or the capabilities of the engine but the fact that someone has designed and implemented automated motorised knobs.

This could be a huge thing and with respect I think some previous repliers to the topic are overlooking the implications.

I could waffle on as to why but I'll raise two salient points:

1) Look at what fader automation did for mixing desks
2) Analogue synth hardware suffers from a limitation that when recalling a preset the physical knobs on the control surface don't reflect the current settings

This is why features such as a dot next to a parameter value on an LCD indicates the knob not matching the preset value, and why we have global settings to determine whether a knob is going to jump to a new value when turned or whether to remain ineffective until the existing value is met during the operation of turning it.

Of course plugins/softsynths can do it already but for those of us with analogue (and even digital-with-knobs) synth hardware the potential is a very exciting prospect indeed.

All the above aside, I still want to know more about the synth that is Nina and will keep a weather-eye (ear?) open!

[BJG145]

Look at what fader automation did for mixing desks

...yep, I was thinking that if they implemented a record/playback feature it could encourage a new approach to modulation; a bit like the Mod Sequencer on the MS2000, but with continuous values instead of steps. But I think you'd need touch-sensitive controls to do it effectively, like the touch-sensitive motorised faders on a desk that can flip into write-mode when you adjust them. Definitely an interesting innovation though.

[t-sun]

On the one hand, 12-voice all analog with what looks like nice, chunky build quality and plenty of features is always nice.

On the other hand, motorized anything are both guaranteed to fail and to be expensive or difficult to both produce reliably and to later replace.

Given that this is full analog, I'm thinking this was their solution to the fact that a full analog synth can't actually have patch memory because it would require digital control of the knobs to some degree. Seems to be a complaint with some DAW people who buy an analog monosynth and then don't understand why it's not controllable by MIDI. If you absolutely, positively have to have a completely analog synthesizer with modern conveniences...

Over/under on price? I'm thinking 4K local currency units. Could be up there in Moog One territory, or maybe they manage to get it priced around Polybrute.

[Eddy Deegan]

... motorized anything are both guaranteed to fail and to be expensive or difficult to both produce reliably and to later replace.

I gently disagree. Not insofar as I'd go so far as a motorised fader or pot will match the life expectancy of a dumb fader or pot but we've had motorised faders for a long time now and they seem extremely reliable.

Where I would possibly agree with you is that the life of motorised controls of any sort is a bit of an unknown: I'm sure many of us have had a floppy drive fail after 20 years for example. But overall the fader solutions seem fairly robust and long-lived. I've also resurrected floppy drives with a new rubber belt more than once.

To my way of thinking the biggest issue with longevity is capacitors as opposed to mechanics. But I agree that if there are rubber belts involved they should be spec'd for decades of use. If the motors are well made they should last for as long as the capacitors and should also be replaceable in 20 years although one suspects that by then there should be replacement models to choose from.

... I was thinking that if they implemented a record/playback feature ...

Now you're talking my language

[zenguitar]

https://reverb.com/uk/item/1403837-sold ... s-rare-slo

Guitarists had something along these lines decades ago

Andy

[Martin Walker]

Well Nina has certainly generated a lot of interest!

Let's hope future demos highlight her strengths in a more obvious fashion.

Martin

[pax-eterna]

New analog synth coming to NAMM 2022

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lmrAHSgHwdM

Nina is a 12-voice analogue polysynth with motorised knobs - when you select a preset, all of them will immediately move to their correction positions. As you can see and hear, patch morphing is an option, too.

See what you think Eddy, and of course everybody else

Martin

This is going to be BIG dollars!

[Arpangel]

Want it.

[OneWorld]

... I was thinking that if they implemented a record/playback feature ...

Now you're talking my language

I can't see it being much use without the ability to record the movements. For me the demo left me a bit non-plussed, I thought ok, we have some filter sweeps and such - so what next? But yes if there is the addition of recording, then wow, it would be like having 8 hands, all making changes simultaneously, yo could go crazy with that, not modulation but madulation.

In a more general sense, it is good to see new developments coming along and this might be something the more established marques, Yamaha, Korg, Roland et al might licence and use in their products

[resistorman]

It's clever, I'll give them that. But, there's a difference between being innovative and just bolting on some motorized pots to a moldering paradigm.

[resistorman]

As far as motorized synths go, I'd call the Gamechanger Audio MOTOR Synth Mk2 innovative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c81RCOBrrcM&t=61s

[Ian Shaw]

https://reverb.com/uk/item/1403837-sold ... s-rare-slo

Guitarists had something along these lines decades ago

Andy

I had a Yamaha rackmount thing that had motorised knobs many moons ago. I think Alan Holdsworth used one. My band mates were well-impressed:

https://reverb.com/uk/item/54003713-vin ... 0-s-1990-s

PS. Not by my guitar sound or playing, it has to be said

[Martin Walker]

But yes if there is the addition of recording, then wow, it would be like having 8 hands, all making changes simultaneously, yo could go crazy with that, not modulation but madulation.

Admittedly you can already do this with other synths - it's one of the reasons I bought my Prophet 12, as there was a dedicated knob for almost every parameter, that sends out MIDI controller data when you move it. I've recorded plenty of multi-pass solos where I'd need 7 or 8 hands to perform it in real time

For me the beauty of Nina is that you can see in real time exactly what parameters are changing on the synth itself, without having to look on a screen somewhere - so much easier to take in all the info.

[steveman]

Tough crowd...
To the person who commented they're able to do this this in software, really who cares? We all know this thanks, and we're using software where we want to.
This for those interested in hardware.

As Martin says, this is about seeing exactly where you controls are set when you recall a patch. Encoders don't feel or behave the same, there's no physical endstop and without encoders you're stuck with deciding jump, match, or relative modes of knob catchup. Jump is useless for performance (I was surprised this has yet to be implemented on the UDO Super Six), match is not much better. Relative (or 'catch up' works best provided the knob isn't at an endstop.

I don't see a problem with this - if you're not interested, move along. Why on an analgue synth? I'm guessing because it's likely to have fewer controls which makes this more likely to be cost effective.

[Arpangel]

It's clever, I'll give them that. But, there's a difference between being innovative and just bolting on some motorized pots to a moldering paradigm.

After thinking about this, I agree, it’s a sledge hammer to crack a nut really, in not a very elegant way.

[Eddy Deegan]

It's quite interesting to hear different takes on it.

Motorised knobs are nothing new, the volume knob on my NAD amp is automated and I bought that nearly 15 years ago. What I am more surprised about is that they haven't been more prevalent on synthesizers as it's a use case that cries out for them.

Perhaps the economy of scale is kicking in, or perhaps the tech is cheaper now. I don't know but on a synth it's a desirable feaure and I for one welcome the introduction of them even if it's still rather niche.

Of course with digital knobs (usualy endless encoders) we've had the 'ring of light' solution for it which does work well (the Korg Radias springs to mind) but it's not precise and I've never seen it on an analogue device.

Each to their own and all that but I applaud and welcome it. I am interested as a potential buyer so there is a target market for certain. How big that market is remains to be seen but I'm all for it as a trend